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Re: [dsg] Re: ‘Cetasikas' study corner 207 - Zeal/chanda (g) - Questions

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Hi Tep and Sarah, Good questions from Tep. I am glad Sarah answered them very clearly, I am just back. I can add something at one point only. I put one
    Message 1 of 1161 , Jun 2, 2005
      Hi Tep and Sarah,
      Good questions from Tep.
      I am glad Sarah answered them very clearly, I am just back.
      I can add something at one point only. I put one addition at the end.
      op 31-05-2005 09:06 schreef sarah abbott op sarahprocterabbott@...:
      > --- Tep Sastri <tepsastri@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> 1. DN 22: Maha-satipatthana Sutta; There is the case where a monk
      >> generates desire(chandam janeti), endeavors, arouses persistence,
      >> upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the non-arising of evil,
      >> unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen... ." (samma-vayamo)
      >>
      >> Question 1. Does the chanda in this case accompany a) kama-vacara
      >> citta, or b) rupa-vacara citta, or c) arupa-vacara citta, or d) none of
      >> these?
      >> Question 2. Why have you chosen that answer for the Question 1?
      >> Question 3. Is there lobha associated with chanda here? Why?
      >> Question 4. Is there a "self" directing the activities in this case?
      >> Why?
      > ....
      Sarah: 1.kama-vacara at moments of satipatthana when the 4 right efforts
      are
      > being developed and lokuttara at moments when all Noble Eightfold Path
      > factors arise and the 4 right efforts are ‘fulfilled’.
      >
      > 2.references to the 4 right efforts are always (as I understand) in the
      > context of satipatthana and supramundane consciousness. Checking the
      > context in DN22 to confirm, I see it comes under the 4NT.
      Nina: I think also in kusala that is not included in satipatthana, samatha
      without satipatthana.
      Sarah: 3. no lobha with kusala (or sobhana to be precise) cittas.
      ‘Generates
      > desire’ or ‘rouses his will’ (Walshe tansl) can easily be misunderstood.
      >
      > 4. :-) remember, all dhammas are anatta. Chanda is anatta, vayamo is
      > anatta. Right effort and wholesome chanda are generated when there is
      > right understanding of dhammas by conditions and arise with that
      > understanding as you and Jon agreed, I believe. We can say a monk
      > generates chanda, but this has to be understood as being conventional
      > language as Howard has pointed out.
      > *****
      Nina:Some addition, taken from Visuddhimagga studies:
      <Kusala chanda assists the kusala citta to actually apply the Dhamma in our
      life. This is Dhammachanda, zeal of Dhamma.
      We read in the ³ Dispeller of Delusion² (Ch 8, §1401) in the section of
      arousing right effort, about the arousing of chanda : <Furthermore, one who
      effects zeal ³induces zeal; one effecting it continuously ³produces [zeal]².
      One who rouses it again when it has fallen due to some obstacle ³rouses² it;
      one who keeps it continually on foot ³arouses² it. One who makes it evident
      ³brings it about²; one who brings it about with unhesitancy, with
      unreluctance and with unreservedness ³brings it into being².>
      We are bound to meet obstacles in the development of vipassanaa, due to our
      defilements. But this text is a reminder not to loose courage, but to
      continue developing understanding of the realities that appear in daily
      life. It should be without hesitation, withour reluctance, without reserve,
      no matter whether the objects are pleasant or unpleasant, kusala dhamma or
      akusala dhamma. This is the zeal of Dhamma, Dhammachanda.>

      Nina.
    • philip
      Dear Group Here is a useful post on what volition means in the Dhamma. Of course it is different from what comfort-seekers sutting on cushions want it to
      Message 1161 of 1161 , Aug 21 5:47 PM
        Dear Group


        Here is a useful post on what "volition means in the Dhamma. Of course it is different from what comfort-seekers sutting on cushions want it to mean:

        I highlight one part: > "We should consider why we want to perform kusala kamma. Is
        > our aim kusala vipaaka?"

        I think we are seeking pleasant vipaaka most of the time when we consider Dhamma, seeking comfort. (Even if we are not seeking pleasant mind states in a blatant way, through ritual cushion play.) We have to be honest about that.

        Please enjoy the rest of the post.


        Phil
        >
        >From 'Cetasikas' by Nina van Gorkom
        >

        > *****
        > There is no self who can force citta to be kusala citta, but conditions
        > can be cultivated so that kusala citta can arise more often. Important
        > conditions for the arising of kusala citta with paññ are friendship with
        > a person who has right understanding of the Dhamma and who can explain
        > the Dhamma in the right way, listening to the teachings and
        > studying them, and above all mindfulness of the reality which
        > appears now.
        >
        > We should consider why we want to perform kusala kamma. Is
        > our aim kusala vipåka? Kusala kamma produces kusala vipåka
        > because this is the natural course of things, but if we want to
        > perform kusala kamma in order to have a pleasant result, such as
        > a happy rebirth, there is clinging. The aim of the Buddha's teachings
        > is the eradication of defilements. Wholesome deeds will be purer
        > if we perform them because we see the benefit of eliminating
        > defilements. Since human life is very short we should not lose
        > any opportunity for dåna, sú‰a or bhåvan. If we develop the
        > eightfold Path there will eventually be purification of all
        > defilements.
        > *****
        > [Ch.4 Volition(cetanaa) to be contd]
        >
        > Metta,
        >
        > Sarah
        > ======
        >
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