[dsg] Re: Meditation
- Hi Mike (and Niana) -
Thank you very much, Mike, for expressing a common interest in this
fascinating subject of 'naamaruupapariccheda' as 'correct seeing of
mind-and-body'. Yes, I will write more about this stuff with as much sutta
support as I can find and, of course, with the kind help of Nina. It has
been several years now that I have been trying to learn both principal
and practical aspects of this first door of wisdom that opens to the
higher planes of insight knowledge (as expounded by Ven.
Buddhaghosa and by Ven. Mahasi Sayadaw in his "Progress of
Insight"). Unfortunately, I have not found even one discourse (sutta) that
directly addresses this issue.
I truly appreciate Nina's energetic investigation into the Mahanama
sutta and other related materials on this subject matter. I personally
believe that this endeavor will, in time, not only reveal more subtle
relationships between the Abhidahmma and the Sutta Pitaka, but also
make clearer the citta behaviors during the process of insight
development. For example, we might be able to understand how the
citta realizes "the arising and falling away" of the five aggregates, one
at a time, as Nina puts it :
N: "When we still take nama and rupa as a whole how can the arising
and falling away of realities one at a time, separately, ever be
realized? We can reflect on impermanence, but that is only thinking".
Mike, the followings (from her message # 40267) are Nina's extremely-
interesting explanations of this insight knowledge, that cuts through the
nama-rupa. I would like to propose that we use them as building blocks
for developing our clearer understanding of yatha-bhuta-nana-
N: <At such moments there is no person, no world, only nama and rupa
appearing one at a time. But after these moments have fallen away the
world appears as usual. This means: the sense-door processes hide
again the mind-door process, just like now. There is seeing, seeing,
seeing. But what has been realized at the moments of insight
knowledge must be applied to all kinds of nama and rupa. The
application in the intervals between the moments of vipassana naa.na
are the parinnas. >
N: <Without fully known, without comprehending the all, monks, without
detaching himself from, without abandoning the all, a man is incapable
of extinguishing dukkha...> It is asked what all? The eye, objects, etc.
Herein is the clue, the preparation you asked for. Mindfulness and
understanding has to be developed of all objects appearing one at a
time through the six doors. We have to know the difference between
concept and reality, only realities are objects of satipatthana. The
khandhas, the elements, the aayatanas. Or in short: dhammas,
--- In email@example.com, "mnease"
> Hi Tep,many
> Interesting, not at all 'our' usual translation. Naama and ruupa have
> different meanings dependent on context by my reading. Would liketo read
> more, with support from the texts if possible, for the rendering of
> 'naamaruupapariccheda' as 'correct seeing of mind-and-body' .
> Thanks in advance,
- Hi Phil,
But in order to understand what rupa is, being quite different from
nama, one also has to be mindful of the nama that appears.
Unavoidable. It is like B.B. also says. Or sometimes we read that
feeling has to be fully understood, but that means that also other
phenomena like rupa have to be fully understood.
Op 1-feb-2007, om 0:37 heeft Phil het volgende geschreven:
> What is[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> that one thing? It is mindfulness directed to the body."