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Re: [dsg] The All & Nibbana

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  • TGrand458@aol.com
    In a message dated 1/1/2005 5:52:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, LBIDD@webtv.net writes: Hi Howard and TG, I think it s useful to know that there is more to
    Message 1 of 60 , Jan 1, 2005
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      In a message dated 1/1/2005 5:52:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, LBIDD@...
      writes:
      Hi Howard and TG,

      I think it's useful to know that there is more to reality than the
      internal and external sense bases. What this means is that understanding
      these bases doesn't necessarily answer all questions (about kamma for
      example), so we don't need to try to answer these questions. These
      answers are beyond our "domain". More importantly they are not germaine
      to the path leading to cessation of dukkha.

      Larry

      Hi Larry

      Your first sentence seems to contradict the very Sutta we are discussing. I
      don't think that kamma is "outside" of "the all," just a complex aspect of it.
      Who knows, maybe you'll be the next Buddha and the entire workings of kamma
      will not be something unknown to you.

      I think the Buddha's teaching on "the all" isn't so much about what we don't
      know right now...but what we have no "potential" to know because there is
      simply no conditional support for it.

      TG


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    • upasaka@aol.com
      Hi, Larry - In a message dated 1/8/05 5:32:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, LBIDD@webtv.net ... Howard: Oh. No, this didn t occur while meditating, and it lasted
      Message 60 of 60 , Jan 8, 2005
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        Hi, Larry -

        In a message dated 1/8/05 5:32:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, LBIDD@...
        writes:

        > Howard: "What* is a kind of suppression? I don't get you."
        >
        > Hi Howard,
        >
        > Suppression of the sense of self by concentration.
        >
        -------------------------------------
        Howard:
        Oh. No, this didn't occur while meditating, and it lasted for a couple
        hours. There was no apparent heightened concentration, though there was an
        increased lucidity to perception.
        ------------------------------------
        My only point is >
        > that the experience of no sense of self is different from insight
        > into no self. You called the experience an experience of no self; I
        > would call it an experience of no sense of self.
        >
        -------------------------------------
        Howard:
        It was both. Ever since that event, I've *known* there is no self.
        (The sense of self, however, is very much present.)
        -----------------------------------

        >
        > I believe jhana is traditionally described as suppression but I don't
        > have a quote close at hand. I do see how this experience would
        > provide evidence to invalidate the subject/object relationship in
        > experience/consciousness in showing that a sense of self is
        > unnecessary.
        >
        > There's lots of interesting experiences in meditation and otherwise.
        > Their value is in whether or not they make a difference in one's
        > behavior.
        >
        -------------------------------------
        Howard:
        That experience altered my behavior. In particular, I seem to have
        largely lost my fear of death.
        -------------------------------------

        >
        > Larry
        >
        ===================
        With metta,
        Howard

        /Thus is how ye shall see all this fleeting world: A star at dawn, a bubble
        in a stream, a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, a flickering lamp, a
        phantom, and a dream./ (From the Diamond Sutra)




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