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Re: Dhamma Issues, 2, fruition-attainment, no. 4

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  • htootintnaing
    ... wrote: Nina: Dhamma Issues, 2, fruition-attainment, no. 4 The Commentary (of the Path of Discrimination) to the Chapter on ³Attainment of Cessation²
    Message 1 of 2 , Sep 30, 2004
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      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, nina van gorkom <nilo@e...>
      wrote:

      Nina:

      Dhamma Issues, 2, fruition-attainment, no. 4

      The Commentary (of the Path of Discrimination) to the Chapter on
      ³Attainment of Cessation² (Nirodha Samåpatti, Ch XXXIV)
      explains
      three classifications of insight knowledge, vipassanå ñåna:

      ³There are three kinds of insight knowledge: ..snip.. For the
      latter
      two attainments it is necessary to be able to attain jhåna which
      is
      in conformity with those attainments.²

      4. Lokuttara cittas have been classified by way of ..snip.. of the
      five jhånas 11. The reason for this is that there are two kinds of
      ariyans: the ariyan who has lokuttara cittas accompanied by jhåna
      factors(of the different stages of jhåna) and who can therefore
      enter
      fruition-attainment, and

      the ariyan who has lokuttara cittas unaccompanied by jhåna factors
      and who can therefore not enter fruition-attainment.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Htoo:

      Lokuttara cittas are accompanied by 7 bojjhanga dhammas. There are
      vitakka, piti, ekaggata, upekkha. Vitakka arises in the form of samma-
      sankappa. Piti arises in the form of piti-sambojjhanga. Ekaggata and
      upekkha arise in the forms of ekaggata-sambojjhanga and upekkha-
      sambojjhanga.

      I am still wondering sotapams should be able to stay in sotapatti
      phala samapatti. They do not have rupavacara jhana. But they have
      attained lokuttara appana jhana whcih is sotapatti magga citta.

      In case of rupa jhana all jhana citta arise only once when they are
      for the first time. But at later time, they arise without limitation
      and they arise countlessly without any intervening other citta.

      But in case of sotapatti magga citta, it arises only once. After
      cessation of sotapatti magga vithi, there follow other vithi vara. At
      an unspecified time, sotapatti magga equivalent cittas can arise.

      But as magga cittas never arise twice, the equivalent cittas are its
      resultant citta phala cittas. Again there is no lokuttara kiriya
      citta. This is also because magga cittas all arise once.

      When sotapatti magga appana citta has arisen, later phala cittas
      should be accessible for all those who have registered as sotapam.
      They have won the stream to nibbana.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Nina:

      In what way is the ariyan who is a person with ³dry insight²,
      sukkha
      vipassaka (without jhåna attainment), different from the ariyan
      who
      is able to attain jhåna, who is jhåna-låbhí (låbhí
      : possessing)?

      If the ariyan whois without jhåna attainment could enter fruition-
      attainment, he would be the same as the ariyan who is able to attain
      jhåna.

      There must be a difference between the ariyan with dry insight and
      the ariyan with jhåna attainment,who is jhåna låbhí.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Htoo:

      I think, I personally think, there should not be any discrimination
      between ariyas.

      I think, the difference is jhana power abhinnas. Those who do not
      attain rupa jhanas and arupa jhanas will not try to obtain abhinna
      after arahathood.

      With Metta,

      Htoo Naing
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