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Re: Ariyo Atthingiko Maggo - Noble Eightfold Path

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  • nori
    Hi Andrew, ... in ... To be honest, I am not sure. This is only my opinion but I don t think there should be any strict procedural fashion. I think your
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 31, 2004
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      Hi Andrew,

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "suicidal_one2004"
      <andrewlevin@e...> wrote:
      > Nori,
      >
      > Excellent post.
      >
      > Do you think the four foundations of mindfulness, must be practised
      in
      > a procedural fashion,

      To be honest, I am not sure. This is only my opinion but I don't
      think there should be any strict procedural fashion. I think your
      concentration should be where ever your current investigation into
      truth (that is, Dhamma) is.

      The Goenka Camp (Vipassana Research Institute) seems to put emphasis
      on the Body since all things (feelings, mind conditions, mind
      contents) are manifested as sensations. And according to them, this
      is the only true reference.

      It is stated in the Anguttara Nikaya.

      Anguttara Nikaya, IX. ii. 4

      Sariputta spoke thus: "What is the base, Samiddhi, from which
      thoughts and reflections arise in men?" "From the base of mind and
      matter, sir." "And what, Samiddhi, accompanies them?" "Sensation
      accompanies them, sir."

      Personally and currently, I give emphasis to feelings.

      This is a pleasant feeling, a painful feeling of suffering, neither-
      pleasant nor painful feeling.

      What was the cause as to its arising, what was cause as to its
      passing away.

      My reasoning for this is the Four Noble Truths:

      " What are these four? They are
      1) the noble truth of Dukkha;
      2) the noble truth of the origin of Dukkha;
      3) the noble truth of the cessation of Dukkha;
      4) and the noble truth of the way to the cessation of Dukkha."

      D.ii.312 21. "...And what, bhikkus, is right view ?
      > > Knowledge, bhikkus, about ill, knowledge about the
      > > coming to be of ill, knowledge about the way that leads to the
      > > cessation of ill. This is what is called right view."

      So this being the goal - I think it all begins there with feelings.

      And where are feelings felt ? - ... as sensations on the body.


      > that is, that the mindfulness of the body must
      > come first, leading up to the dhamma being last.

      ??? Dhamma is understood by mindfulness of the body. All is Dhamma.


      Peace,
      nori


      -----


      > I ask this
      > especially because the Four Noble Truths are said to be visible in
      the
      > mind, to me it occurs that this must be at an advanced level of
      > practise, though.
      >
      > -Andrew Levin
      >
      > --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "nori" <nori_public@a...>
      wrote:
      > > Hi Dhamma friends,
      > >
      > > I have compiled this summary of the eightfold path for myself
      from
      > > Pali using the PTS (Pali Text Society) dictionary translations
      for
      > > each word and using short excerpts from Gotama Buddha
      > > defining/describing each of the eightfold path from the Maha
      > > Satipatthana Sutta. Also in the section on Samma Sati (right
      > > mindfulness), I have compiled from several translations
      descriptions
      > > of the third and fourth frames of reference. I like to reflect on
      it
      > > every now & then even if I am familiar with it. I thought it
      would
      > > be useful for some of you.
      > >
      > > ---
      > >
      > > In his words from Maha Satipatthana Suttanta, Pali Text Society:
      > >
      > > 20. 'And what, bhikkus, is what is called the Aryan (Noble) Truth
      > > concerning the cessation of ill?
      > >
      > > The utter cessation of, and disenchantment about that very
      > > craving, giving it up, renouncing it, emancipation from it,
      > > detachment to it.
      > >
      > > But now this craving, bhikkus, where in being put away, is it
      > > put away; where in ceasing does it cease?
      > >
      > > In those material things of this world which are dear to us,
      > > which are pleasant - there may this craving be put away, there
      does
      > > it cease.
      > >
      > > ...
      > >
      > > and what, bhikkus, is the Aryan (Noble) Truth concerning the
      > > way that leads to the cessation of ill ?
      > >
      > > This is that Aryan (Noble) Eightfold Path, ..."
      > >
      > > -----
      > >
      > >
      > > Ariyo Atthingiko Maggo
      > > Noble Eightfold Path
      > >
      > >
      > > Samma Ditthi -
      > >
      > > Samma2 (p. 695) (indecl.) [Vedic samyac (=samyak) &
      > > samis "connected, in one"; see under san] thoroughly, properly,
      > > rightly; in the right way, as it ought to be, best, perfectly
      > >
      > > Ditthi (p. 321) (f.) [Sk. drsti; cp. dassana] view, belief, dogma,
      > > theory
      > >
      > > ('free from speculation' - from PTS commentary)
      > >
      > > D.ii.312 21. "...And what, bhikkus, is right view ?
      > > Knowledge, bhikkus, about ill, knowledge about the
      > > coming to be of ill, knowledge about the way that leads to the
      > > cessation of ill. This is what is called right view."
      > >
      > > ---
      > >
      > > Samma Sankappa - Sankappa (p. 662) [san+klp, cp. kappeti fig.
      > > meaning] thought, intention, purpose, plan
      > >
      > > D.ii.312 21 "... And what, bhikkus, is right aspiration
      > > (intention) ?
      > > The aspiration towards renunciation, the aspiration
      > > towards benevolence, the aspiration towards kindness. This is what
      > > is called right aspiration."
      > >
      > > ---
      > >
      > > Samma Vaca - Vaca (p. 607) (f.) [vac, vakti & vivakti; cp. vacah
      (P.
      > > vaco); Vedic vak (vac¡ã) voice, word, vakya
      > >
      > > D.ii.312 21 ¡°...And what, bhikkus, is right speech ?
      > > Abstaining from lying, slander, abuse and idle (vain) talk. This
      is
      > > what is called right speech."
      > >
      > > ---
      > >
      > > Samma Kammanta - Kammanta (p. 194) [Sk. karmanta; kamma+anta, cp.
      > > anta 14.] 1. doing, acting
      > >
      > > D.ii.312 21 ¡°...And what, bhikkus, is right doing ?
      > > Abstaining from taking life, from taking what is not given, from
      > > carnal indulgence. This is what is called right doing."
      > >
      > > ---
      > >
      > > Samma Ajiva - Ājiva (p. 97) [a + jiva; Sk. ajiva]
      livelihood,
      > > mode of living, living, subsistence
      > >
      > > D.ii.312 21 ¡°...And what, bhikkus, is right livelihood ?
      > > Herein, O bhikkus, the Aryan (Noble) disciple having put away
      wrong
      > > livelihood, supports himself by right livelihood."
      > >
      > > (i.e. 'harmless' ¨C from PTS commentary)
      > >
      > > ---
      > >
      > > Samma Vayama - Vayama (p. 609) [fr. vi+a+yam] striving, effort,
      > > exertion, endeavour
      > >
      > > D.ii.312 21 ¡°...And what, bhikkus, is right effort ?
      > > Herein, O bhikkus, a brother makes effort in
      bringing
      > > forth will that evil (i.e. unskillful) and bad states that have
      not
      > > arisen within him may not arise, to that end he stirs up energy,
      he
      > > grips and forces the mind. That he may put away evil and bad
      states
      > > that have arisen within him he puts forth will, he makes effort,
      he
      > > stirs up energy, he grips and forces his mind. That good states
      that
      > > have arisen may persist, may not grow blurred, may multiply, grow
      > > abundant, develop and come to perfection, he puts forth will, he
      > > makes effort, he stirs up energy, he grips and forces the mind.
      This
      > > is what is called right effort.¡± (also known as Fourfold Great
      > > Struggle)
      > >
      > > ---
      > >
      > > Samma Sati - Sati (p. 672) (f.) [Vedic smrti: see etym. under
      > > sarati2] memory, recognition, consciousness, D I.180; II.292;
      Miln
      > > 77--80; intentness of mind, wakefulness of mind, mindfulness,
      > > alertness, lucidity of mind, self--possession, conscience, self¡ª
      > > consciousness
      > >
      > > D.ii.312 21 ¡°And what, bhikkus, is right mindfulness?
      > > Herein, O bhikkus, let a brother, as to the body, continue so to
      > > look upon the..."
      > >
      > > 1) "body (in regards to: the motion of breath, on how it is
      > > disposed/spatial position, with clear comprehension of what it is
      > > doing, its constitution in regards to its organs/parts and its
      > > fundamentals - the four elements, its fate in regards to its
      > > decomposition/mortality)
      > >
      > > "... that he remains ardent, self-possessed, and mindful, having
      > > overcome both the hankering and dejection common in the world."
      > >
      > > "And in the same way as to ..."
      > >
      > > 2) "feelings/sensations (with regard to whether it is pleasant,
      > > painful, neither pleasant or painful feeling),..."
      > >
      > > 3) "mind/mental-condition/consciousness (regarding whether there
      is
      > > present craving/lust/passion or no-..., aversion/hate or no-...,
      > > dull/ignorant/delusion or intelligent/not-ignorant/free-from-
      > > delusion, attentive/concentrated/collected or distrait/scattered,
      > > expanded/exalted/become-great/enlarged or unexpanded/not-
      exalted/not-
      > > become-great/not-enlarged, ideal/unsurpassed or mediocre/not-
      > > ideal/surpassed, composed/quieted or discomposed, liberated/free
      or
      > > bound/not-free) and ..."
      > >
      > > 4) "ideas/mental-contents/mental-objects (with regard to the five
      > > hindrances. i.e. sensuous-desire/craving, ill-will/aversion,
      sloth
      > > and torpor, flurry and worry, doubt) ¡¡...¡±
      > >
      > > (Notes in parentheses are personal notes; multiple words are
      > > compiled from several different translations; translations seem
      to
      > > differ and become vague when it comes to the third and fourth
      frames
      > > of reference - regarding the mind, its condition, characteristics
      > > and contents£»also some of the characteristics cross into both
      > > categories ¨C would appreciate any clarification. )
      > >
      > > (Note: below replace ¡®...¡¯ with one of the four frames of
      > > reference described above)
      > >
      > > D.ii.291 2. ¡°...So does he as to the ..., continue to consider
      > > the ..., either internally or externally (i.e. on others outside
      of
      > > him), or both internally and externally. He keeps on considering
      how
      > > the ... is something that comes to be, or again he keeps on
      > > considering how the ... is something that passes away; or again
      he
      > > keeps on considering the coming to be with the passing away; or
      > > again, conscious that ¡®there is ...¡¯, mindfulness hereof
      becomes
      > > established, far enough for the purposes of knowledge and of self
      > > collectedness. ...¡±
      > >
      > > ---
      > >
      > > Samma Samahdi - Samadhi (p. 685) [fr. san+a+dha] 1.
      concentration; a
      > > concentrated, self--collected, intent state of mind and
      meditation,
      > > which, concomitant with right living, is a necessary condition to
      > > the attainment of higher wisdom and emancipation.
      > >
      > > D.ii.312 21 ¡°...And what, bhikkus, is right
      rapture/concentration ?
      > > Herein, O bhikkus, a brother aloof from sensuous appetities,
      aloof
      > > from evil ideas, enters into and abides in the first Jhana,
      wherein
      > > there is cogitation and deliberation, which is born of solitude
      and
      > > is full of joy and ease. Suppressing cogitation and deliberation,
      he
      > > enters into and abides in the second Jhana, which is self evoked,
      > > born of concentration, full of joy and ease ...¡±
      > >
      > > ---
      > >
      > > Also Bhikkhu Bodhi on the Eightfold path:
      > > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/bps/misc/waytoend.html#ch2
      > >
      > >
      > > With metta,
      > >
      > > nori
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