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[DhammaStudyGroup] Decline

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  • Robert Kirkpatrick
    Dear Sarah, Yes , I am now back in Japan. I had dinner with Ivan before left and we discussed some points. My children were happy indeed, especially when they
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 8, 2000
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      Dear Sarah,
      Yes , I am now back in Japan. I had dinner with Ivan
      before left and we discussed some points. My children
      were happy indeed, especially when they opened the
      presents bag.
      Going back to Rosans comments about the decine of
      Dhamma -which as she noted comes from the inside. I
      think the monks who don't keep vinaya are not such a
      problem - anyone who knows even a little about
      Buddhism immediately discounts them. It is the monks
      who keep strict sila and who study the abhidhamma BUT
      who, in very subtle ways, distort the practice who
      seem most dangerous. This is counterfeit Dhamma that
      is very hard to detect - hence it tricks many people,
      even those who teach it. It is hard to detect because
      it mixes right and wrong and thus benefits in some
      ways while hurting in others.
      I have heard Khun Sujin say on many occasions that
      panna comes with detachment. This is very gradually
      starting to make sense. Are we still trying to get
      something for "ourselves"? Are we attached even to
      kusala - again a subtle clinging. The people I met in
      India seemed so attached to their practice or teacher.
      I spoke to a couple of people near the Boddhi tree in
      Bodhgaya. One seemed interested in the conversation -
      which was about sati -but apologised because she had
      to start chanting . She had to repeat something
      several thousand times and was concerned that this be
      done on time. She said her guru told her that this
      would increase saddha. This is a very obvious example
      of attachment - but , for sure, we have our own
      attachments, blindspots that need to be revealed so
      that they can be analysed, understood and eventually
      dropped.
      Robert
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    • Sarah Procter Abbott
      Robert, I agree that probably the greatest danger to the Teachings probably comes from monks who appear to keep good sila and to have studied extensively but
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 9, 2000
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        Robert,

        I agree that probably the greatest danger to the Teachings probably comes
        from monks who appear to keep good sila and to have studied extensively but
        yet distort the teachings, because as you say, it's harder for most people
        to detect...

        With regard to attachment to kusala, I wouldn't call this subtle at all....
        panna w/ detachment..yes we mind about the object ..we'd rather it were
        kusala..no detachment from the akusala cittas or vipakas...

        And of course, there can be no saddha without right understanding
        developed....just wishful thinking.

        On the subject of 'wishful thinking' , i just had a fax from Nina. i had
        sent her a few of the first pages from here to show her what we were doing
        and she liked the comment I quoted from Khun Sujin when she responded to a
        comment made about having problems with someone's character...'wishful
        thinking'..

        By the way, Nina said she's very busy w/ her writing now, but is encouraging
        us on the internet!
        Sarah

        >From: Robert Kirkpatrick
        >Going back to Rosans comments about the decine of
        >Dhamma -which as she noted comes from the inside. I
        >think the monks who don't keep vinaya are not such a
        >problem - anyone who knows even a little about
        >Buddhism immediately discounts them. It is the monks
        >who keep strict sila and who study the abhidhamma BUT
        >who, in very subtle ways, distort the practice who
        >seem most dangerous. This is counterfeit Dhamma that
        >is very hard to detect - hence it tricks many people,
        >even those who teach it. It is hard to detect because
        >it mixes right and wrong and thus benefits in some
        >ways while hurting in others.
        >I have heard Khun Sujin say on many occasions that
        >panna comes with detachment. This is very gradually
        >starting to make sense. Are we still trying to get
        >something for "ourselves"? Are we attached even to
        >kusala - again a subtle clinging. The people I met in
        >India seemed so attached to their practice or teacher.
        >I spoke to a couple of people near the Boddhi tree in
        >Bodhgaya. One seemed interested in the conversation -
        >which was about sati -but apologised because she had
        >to start chanting . She had to repeat something
        >several thousand times and was concerned that this be
        >done on time. She said her guru told her that this
        >would increase saddha. This is a very obvious example
        >of attachment - but , for sure, we have our own
        >attachments, blindspots that need to be revealed so
        >that they can be analysed, understood and eventually
        >dropped.
        >Robert
        >__________________________________________________

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