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Re: [dsg] Sensing own mind whenever it moves ( 02 )

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  • htootintnaing
    ... .... S: ??? Please explain. ... Htoo: When you start to understand paramattha dhamma that understanding run on words of pannatta. We are using pannatta.
    Message 1 of 40 , Mar 1, 2004
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      >Htoo: Paramattha is through pannatta. Anatta is through Atta.
      ....
      S: ??? Please explain.
      ....
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Htoo: When you start to understand paramattha dhamma that
      understanding run on words of pannatta. We are using pannatta. First
      we use 'Sadda Pannatta' or its equivalent but this again is
      understood through 'Attha Pannatta '. So paramattha is through
      pannatta. So does Anatta even though it is origionally Anatta when we
      are born we were introduced with Atta. ' Hey smile, this is your Mom,
      this is your Dad. ' Then Atta encroached and firmly ramified since
      then. With wisdom the origional Anatta has been back. So I said
      Anatta is through Atta. But actually there is no Atta. All are
      Anatta. I hope you got it.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      S: Fully agreed (but as others would say, you need to know where you
      live when you book your ticket to Bkk;-))
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Htoo: I have said above. Atta is released only at the first gate
      Sotapatti Magga Citta.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      S: The understanding of anatta has to begin with theoretical right
      understanding of anatta and the tools and map have to be laid out
      accordingly. If they ar laid out with an idea of atta, along the route
      more understanding of atta rather than anatta will be developed. No
      point in taking the journey in this case as I see it.
      ....
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Htoo: So you want theoretical knowledge of Anatta and you want to
      throw away Atta. OK, I agree as there is no Atta, then it is not a
      problem. Let's bring Anatta view before we begin the journey.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Htoo: Are you showing up that you have arrived at the milestone
      called Bhanga Nana.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      S: LOL, as you remind us, no Htoo or Sarah to arrive anywhere;-)
      Again,we'd better be sure we start with the right tools and the right
      map.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Htoo: Are you ready with all equipment?
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      S: ???? I've read every message on DSG and to my knowledge you're the
      first to suggest this;-) Perhaps you mixed me up with someone else???
      Recently, the only threads with any mention of Mahayana teachings have
      been ones that were comparing the use of terms such as sabhava and
      paramattha which can be difficult for those familiar with Nagarjuna or
      Mahayana to appreciate. It would be unkind of me to ask you to look
      for a post where I switched sides because I know you won't find one
      (but you're welcome to try;-)). We're relaxed about occasional lines
      and references to other schools but not with big slabs of quoted
      material from them. You can contact us off-list anytime you think
      we've gone too soft;-).
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Htoo: It is not a problem if it is not. But when I have time and find
      the message, I will reply that post to you.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > There is no country and there is no continent but just vanna,
      sadda, gandha, rasa, pathavi, tejo, vayo, apo etc etc.
      > ....
      S: Excellent!
      > ....
      > When is your next DSG
      > > meeting? How long will it be? How many will be attending? What
      are
      > > the activities at the meeting? How much is a day stay at hotels
      there
      > > where the meeting will be? I will be looking forward to hearing
      from
      > > you, Sarah.
      ....
      S: I could also answer with paramattha dhammas as you do to my
      personal ones;-)

      Every Saturday there is an English discussion with A.Sujin, Sukin and
      other friends (small group). Azita will be there in the middle of
      April just after Easter (dates?). I don't know if she will persuade
      others to join. We weren't planning to go away, but we could be
      persuaded to go (if you or others wished to join)for the first of her
      two weekends as I noticed I have an Easter holiday then. It's just
      informal discussion like here, but face to face. Everyone makes their
      own accomodation arrangements according to budget and so on. Best to
      be close to the Foundation. Please contact Sukin, Betty or me off-
      list for any other details. Everyone would be delighted to have you
      join and you'd be taken good care of. Ken O lives quite close, so I
      know he'd consider joining again.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Htoo: May be at some time.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > May you really see Anatta.
      ....
      S:Thanks. Remember, no 'Sarah' or 'Htoo' to see;-)

      Metta,

      Sarah
      =====


      With Unlimited Metta,

      Htoo Naing
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    • Sarah
      Dear Htoo, S:I think there is really one part of the equipment we have anything further to discuss: ... S: This being the case, wouldn’t a more typical case
      Message 40 of 40 , Mar 14, 2004
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        Dear Htoo,

        S:I think there is really one part of the equipment we have anything
        further to discuss:
        ....
        > > S: Ready. Let me just ask for another clarification. In your new
        > series(04) there's plenty of good stress on anatta and
        > understanding
        > different
        > > dhammas as they arise. This being the case, why do you write
        > `he
        > has been
        > > in sitting meditation for a long time'?
        > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        > Htoo: Just typical case. In Biology there is typical cell which
        > contains all characters of plants and animals. Anatta can be seen at
        > any time. In the office, in the water, on top of the mountain, in the
        > sky and so on.
        > --------------------------------------------------------------....
        S: This being the case, wouldn’t a more typical case be ‘whilst eating
        lunch’, ‘in the office’, ‘rushing for a bus or train’, ‘watching TV’ and
        so on? Also, I notice in the series that you always give the same typical
        case of ‘in sitting meditation for a long time’. Unless we have the idea
        that this is the ‘best’ case, I don’t think it will be typical at all.
        ....
        <......>
        > Htoo: Nothing really. I just follow his thought. Thought tracing :-)
        > Don't you think there is Atta. He said Anapana is elementary.
        > Satipatthana and Mahasatipatthana are graduate level. So I just want
        > to know what doctorial level is.
        ....
        S: ;-) OK, I think I missed the other post. It doesn’t make any sense, but
        we can just help to lay out the equipment and map and leave the rest to
        conditions, understanding our own cittas when we read views we consider
        erroneous. No need to be unduly concerned.
        ....
        S: I like some of your more recent letters such as the dove ‘kooing’ one.
        You include abhidhamma detail which I appreciate. If I ask you why you
        always refer to ‘the meditator’, especially in ‘Sensing dhamma (08)’, for
        example, you’ll tell me it’s just a conventional term and it’s panna that
        knows.

        I think it might be less misleading to use rt understanding or panna
        rather than the meditator who ‘has been practising meditation’, especially
        as you refer to other realities. In other words, in spite of your comments
        about anatta, it still sounds like there is an atta meditating, selecting
        certain objects, convinced that sitting a long time is better and
        forgetting that namas and rupas are conditioned and not in anyone’s
        control at this very moment.

        I look forward to your clarifications. I’m keen to start the journey
        together but am aware of lots of attachment flooding in, wishing to sort
        out and finally agree on the equipment as soon as possible. I think the
        map is clear, right?

        Metta,

        Sarah
        p.s Please see my post to Jack just written and one to KenO, hopefully
        coming.
        =================

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