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Re: [dsg] How To Get Through The Samsara ( 02 )

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  • Sarah
    Dear Htoo & All, I greatly enjoy your series on Cetasikas - it’s a very imaginative and colourful way of presenting these mental factors as Ministers. I
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 1, 2003
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      Dear Htoo & All,

      I greatly enjoy your series on Cetasikas - it’s a very imaginative and
      colourful way of presenting these mental factors as Ministers. I always
      smile when I read them. Anumodana. They’re very helpful indeed as long as
      the metaphors are not taken literally, as James would remind us;-)

      I also appreciated this post (no2) from this series. For example:

      --- Htoo Naing <htootintnaing@...> wrote:

      > Realities are realities and they are always true in ultimate sense.
      > These ultimate realities are CITTA , CETASIKA, RUPA, and NIBBANA.
      >
      > CITTA is an ultimate reality. It is the nature that is aware of object
      > or Arammana. It is conscious to sense or object or Arammana. Basing on
      > this character, there is only one Citta. According to its character, it
      > just knows the Arammana. So it is primarily pure, innocent, radiant and
      > luminous. Cittas are in the first group of ultimate realities.
      >
      > However, Citta never arises in isolation but arises with other
      > associated mental factors called CETASIKAS. It is these Cetasikas that
      > give Citta different names. Depending on what Cetasikas accompany, there
      > are 89 Cittas or 89 states of consciousness. Cetasikas are included in
      > the second group of ultimate realities. There are 52 Cetasikas and each
      > has their specific typical character. All 52 Cetasikas have general
      > characters as well. Each Citta and each Cetasika will be delineated in
      > the coming posts.
      >
      > The third group of ultimate realities is RUPA . Rupa are bases. Rupa
      > base for Nama Dhamma both Citta and Cetasika. Rupa also base for Rupa.
      > Rupa have their own characters. Characteristic of Rupa is its
      > changeability. Rupa are subjected to change and they are influenced by
      > Kamma, Citta, Utu, and Ahara. Each of Rupa, Kamma, Utu, Ahara,
      > interactions of Rupa and their four causes will be discussed in the
      > coming posts.
      >
      > The fourth group of ultimate realities is NIBBANA . Nibbana is an
      > absolute peace as all kinds of fire have been extinguished. These kinds
      > of fire are shaping and forming the existing events, happenings and
      > situations. Fire are mental conditioners or Cetasikas. As conditioned,
      > different kinds of Citta has to arise. Kamma have to arise in connection
      > with Citta. Arisen Rupa are further conditioned by Utu and Ahara. And
      > new and new Rupa have to grow in quantity and they proliferate
      > infinitely and endlessly.
      .....
      S: I think it’s very helpful that you keep giving these reminders and
      clearly understanding the first three conditioned ultimate realities is
      essential to realizing nibbana. In other Buddhist traditions it is
      stressed that ‘the entire dependently originating world -both physical
      and mental - has a merely conceptual existence’ (from the article Larry
      gave us the link to -). From this, it would seem there is no
      differentiation then between ultimate realities (except nibbana) and
      conventional truths and sound is no more ‘real’ than a tree. The latter is
      not in accordance with the Tipitaka (or experience), however, as I
      understand. Furthermore, concepts such as trees are not conditioned. Only
      cittas, cetasikas and rupas are conditioned. The Dependent Origination is
      about the conditioned nature of realities.

      Thank you again, for clearly stating these truths.

      One question, I do have however is when you write:

      H: > Another option as destination is endlessly rotating the wheel of
      lives.
      > As long as Sattas are growing Kamma, the wheel will be rotating
      > endlessly. It is the readers choice whether to choose Nibbana as their
      > destination or to be in the state of rotating in the wheel of lives as
      > their destination. If they choose the wheel of lives as their
      > ndestination '' How To Get Through The Samsara '' is no more needed to
      > read up. For those who choose Nibbana as their destination will need to
      > learn Dhamma that help get through the Samsara.
      ....
      In paramatha dhamma terms, what do you mean here by choice and who does
      the choosing? Are these conditioned realities too?

      Thank you again for all your other helpful posts,

      Metta,

      Sarah
      p.s. Thank you for posting your comprehensive Pali glossary. When we were
      recently in Myanmar, our Myanmar friends took a little time to get used to
      our pronunciation of Pali terms and vice versa as both Thai and Burmese
      have their own pronunciations of some sounds which are different from the
      Sinhalese. Looking at your glossary, I esp. notice the difference for
      these consonants - ‘c’ which you pronounce ‘s’, ‘j’ as ‘z’, ‘th’ as ‘ht’
      [as in your name;-)], ‘v’ as ‘w’ [common in thai too], ‘s’ as ‘th’, ‘v’ as
      ‘b’. Thank you.
      ========================


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    • htootintnaing
      Dear Sarah, Thanks for your kind reply and showing interest in my posts. I am trying to present clear account in all possible way. ... Sarah : In paramatha
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 1, 2003
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        Dear Sarah,

        Thanks for your kind reply and showing interest in my posts. I am
        trying to present clear account in all possible way.

        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Sarah <sarahdhhk@y...> wrote:
        > Dear Htoo & All,
        >
        > I greatly enjoy your series on Cetasikas -

        -------------------------------------------
        Sarah : In paramatha dhamma terms, what do you mean here by choice
        and who does the choosing? Are these conditioned realities too?

        Thank you again for all your other helpful posts,

        Metta,

        Sarah
        -------------------------------------------------

        Htoo :

        Dear Sarah, I would answer indirectly.

        A baby was adopted by a couple who do not have even a child. He was
        brought up in their home. He called them as ' Pa Pa ' ( Dad ), and '
        Ma Ma ' ( Mom ). He really thought that they were his blood-related
        parents. But once he was told that his current care givers who were
        behaving as if they were his parents were actually not of his. Due to
        this information given by a neighbour, the child realized that they
        were not his parent ( not his father and his mother ). But he loved
        them as they brought them up. So he continued using the word ' Pa
        Pa ' ( Dad ) and ' Ma Ma ' ( Mom ) even though he knew that they were
        not.

        There is no ' who ' in Paramattha Dhamma. The choice I used was just
        a word. If that choice arises, it is actually arising of Adhimokkha
        Cetasika. It is an ultimate reality.
        -------------------------------------------------
        >p.s. Thank you for posting your comprehensive Pali glossary. When we
        were recently in Myanmar, our Myanmar friends took a little time to
        get used to our pronunciation of Pali terms and vice versa as both
        Thai and Burmese have their own pronunciations of some sounds which
        are different from the Sinhalese. Looking at your glossary, I esp.
        notice the difference for these consonants - ?c? which you pronounce ?
        s?, ?j? as ?z?, ?th? as ?ht?
        [as in your name;-)], ?v? as ?w? [common in thai too], ?s? as ?th?, ?
        v? as
        ?b?. Thank you.
        ========================
        Htoo Naing :

        P.S : There are international phonetic symbols. We can see the
        symbols. But the actual sounds will need an audio version of data. I
        am not good at phonetic. But I can pronounce nearly accurately some
        difficult sounds.
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