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Re: [dsg] Vism. XIV, 1

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  • LBIDD@webtv.net
    Hi all, Would someone like to say a few words on this sentence: And that [consciousness] has been developed in all its aspects by the bhikkhu who is thus
    Message 1 of 54 , Jul 23 4:26 PM
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      Hi all,

      Would someone like to say a few words on this sentence:

      "And that [consciousness] has been developed in all its aspects by the
      bhikkhu who is thus possessed of the more advanced development of
      concentration that has acquired with direct-knowledge the benefits."

      Larry
    • Jonothan Abbott
      Jim Thanks very much for bringing up this interesting reference. I don t have any familiarity with this text, but I ve had a quick look at the PTS translation
      Message 54 of 54 , Aug 1, 2003
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        Jim

        Thanks very much for bringing up this interesting reference. I don't
        have any familiarity with this text, but I've had a quick look at the
        PTS translation ('Buddhist Psychological Ethics') and the commentary
        ('Atthasaalinii', also by BPS as 'The Expositor'), and I think your
        tentative interpretation is likely to be correct. A couple of
        preliminary observations.

        In Buddhist Psychological Ethics, the section on supramundane
        consciousness is dealt with in chapter 5 and this particular passage
        is in the section 'The First Path' (i.e., dealing with attainment of
        stream entry) under the heading 'The Twenty Great Methods' (viisati
        mahaanayaa -- a reference to jhana and the other 19). As you remark,
        the first section dealing with jhana is lengthy, but in remarks
        immediately following that section it is made clear that exactly the
        same detail also applies to the other 19 methods. In other words,
        apart from the order of arrangement, there is no distinction between
        the 20 'methods'.

        As regards the commentary, there is some relevant material at pp 318
        and 319 of 'The Expositor'. As I read it, it is saying that the
        difference between the 20 methods is a matter of personal
        inclination. It also says, as regards the various classifications
        given in the main work under the section dealing with the 20 methods,
        "Thus the king of the Law has shown the First Path in classifying it
        by a thousand methods."

        Thanks again for the reference. I intend to have a closer look at
        the text. Others who are familiar with it (Nina, RobK, Sarah?) may
        be able to add more.

        Jon

        --- Jim Anderson <jimanderson_on@...> wrote: > Jon,
        ...
        > I'm not exactly sure what the connection is between mundane
        > concentration and insight but your comments on this caused me to
        > consider the role the jhaanas play in bringing about supramundane
        > path-consciousness. In the kusala section of the Dhammasangani
        > concerning the lokuttaracittas, the first big part of it involves
        > developing supramundane jhaana but when I got to section 358 it
        > goes
        > on to describe 19 other great methods in addition. eg. he develops
        > supramundane satipatthana... This whole section tells me that there
        > are other ways of attaining path-consciousness besides the jhaana
        > method. In other words, like the jhaana method these other methods
        > can also serve as a basis even though the path-consciousness is
        > automatically accompanied by the 1st jhaana. Do you think that many
        > of
        > these methods are descriptive of the way of a sukkhavipassaka? I'm
        > reading that it does and I'm wondering if you agree. There is
        > uncertainty with some of the methods such as supramundane samatha
        > (is it different from the jhaana method?).
        >
        > Best wishes,
        > Jim


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