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RE: [dsg] Re: Single Threading & Serialization

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  • Kom Tukovinit
    Dear Victor, ... That is the ultimate goal, but is it possible to realize liberation and the cessation of dukkha without development? Development implies
    Message 1 of 69 , Jul 2, 2003
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      Dear Victor,

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: yu_zhonghao [mailto:yu_zhonghao@...]
      > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:33 AM
      > To: dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [dsg] Re: Single Threading & Serialization
      >
      >
      > Hi Kom,
      >
      > Then the goal is to realize liberation, the
      > cessation of dukkha.

      That is the ultimate goal, but is it possible to realize
      liberation and the cessation of dukkha without development?
      Development implies gradual progress, not sudden insight.
      It also implies intermediate levels of realization of the
      truths. We may rightly think about liberation and the
      cessation of dukkha in general sense now, but that is no
      realization. The buddha's teachings lead to knowledge,
      comprehension, detachment, liberation, and nibbana.
      Liberation is not yet possible as long as there is not
      enough accumulation, but knowledge, comprehension, and
      detachment are possible, albeit gradually.

      >
      > When you said that understanding that there is
      > nothing (that can be
      > realized now) beyond the 5 kandhas are the first
      > step toward this
      > liberation, do you mean that knowing the four
      > noble truths is the
      > first step toward liberation, the cessation of dukkha?

      Does the first truth include the 5 kandhas? Is the second
      truth part of the 5 kandhas? You tell me...

      kom
    • nina van gorkom
      Dear Howard, ... N: I agree with Kom that this is very well expressed. It helps to think of conditions, that you cannot force anything. I spoke with Lodewijk
      Message 69 of 69 , Jul 3, 2003
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        Dear Howard,
        op 03-07-2003 15:40 schreef upasaka@... op upasaka@...:

        > Realizing that what is usually taken for some "me"
        > going through a process of observing an apparently short and simple sequence
        > of
        > "things in here" or "things out there" actually amounts to a complex flow of
        > flickerings from one sense door to another, involving a dazzling stream of
        > arisings and ceasings of observed conditions, all quite impersonal and
        > uncontrollable (by any "me"), is wonderfully illuminating and freeing.
        N: I agree with Kom that this is very well expressed. It helps to think of
        conditions, that you cannot force anything. I spoke with Lodewijk who was
        nervous about the piano teacher, he is so sarcastical at times. No good to
        be nervous about it. A safe feeling that whatever we experienced is
        conditioned anyway.
        Nina.
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