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Intermediate States (Bardo)

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  • Sarah
    Hi Connie, We were discussing ‘intermediate states’ after death and I promised to get back to you. (sorry, I’ve lost your post): Kathavatthu (Points of
    Message 1 of 38 , May 18 10:16 PM
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      Hi Connie,

      We were discussing ‘intermediate states’ after death and I promised to get
      back to you. (sorry, I’ve lost your post):

      Kathavatthu (Points of Controversy), Bk V111,2,”Of an Intermediate State’,
      discusses in detail why the proposition “that there is an intermdiate
      state of existence” is not valid.

      In summary from the commentary:

      “Some (as, for instance, the Pubbaseliyas and Sammitiyas), by a careless
      acceptation of the Sutta-phrase - ‘completed existence within the
      interval’ - held that there is an interm stage where a being awaits
      reconception for a week or longer. The counter-argument is based on the
      Exalted One’s dictum that there are three states of becoming only - the
      Kama-, the Rupa-, and the Arupa-worlds <SN ii,3 etc>. And it is because of
      that dictum that the opponent (in so far as he is orthodox) has to deny so
      many of the questions.”

      Also from the commentary:

      “.........Here the sense is this: If there be such a state as an
      intermediate state of becoming, then it must be a ‘five-mode becoming’
      etc., such as Kama-life, and so forth. Let us then ask you: “Do you
      identify the intermediate state with either the Kama-life, or Rupa-life,
      or Arupa-life?” All these the opponent denies, because he would not admit
      such things.

      “The expressions “either of the Kama-life” and so forth have been brought
      forth in order that, if there be an intermediate state, it must be between
      these states of becoming, like an interval between two boundaries. The
      opponent who would not admit such things, denies all these questions.
      Thus he refuses the Sakavadin’s “indeed” simply for his view, but not in
      accordance with the doctrine.”

      Hope that helps. Let me know if you need anymore;-)

      With metta,

      Sarah
      =====


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    • Sarah
      Hi Connie, We were discussing ‘intermediate states’ after death and I promised to get back to you. (sorry, I’ve lost your post): Kathavatthu (Points of
      Message 38 of 38 , May 18 10:16 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Connie,

        We were discussing ‘intermediate states’ after death and I promised to get
        back to you. (sorry, I’ve lost your post):

        Kathavatthu (Points of Controversy), Bk V111,2,”Of an Intermediate State’,
        discusses in detail why the proposition “that there is an intermdiate
        state of existence” is not valid.

        In summary from the commentary:

        “Some (as, for instance, the Pubbaseliyas and Sammitiyas), by a careless
        acceptation of the Sutta-phrase - ‘completed existence within the
        interval’ - held that there is an interm stage where a being awaits
        reconception for a week or longer. The counter-argument is based on the
        Exalted One’s dictum that there are three states of becoming only - the
        Kama-, the Rupa-, and the Arupa-worlds <SN ii,3 etc>. And it is because of
        that dictum that the opponent (in so far as he is orthodox) has to deny so
        many of the questions.”

        Also from the commentary:

        “.........Here the sense is this: If there be such a state as an
        intermediate state of becoming, then it must be a ‘five-mode becoming’
        etc., such as Kama-life, and so forth. Let us then ask you: “Do you
        identify the intermediate state with either the Kama-life, or Rupa-life,
        or Arupa-life?” All these the opponent denies, because he would not admit
        such things.

        “The expressions “either of the Kama-life” and so forth have been brought
        forth in order that, if there be an intermediate state, it must be between
        these states of becoming, like an interval between two boundaries. The
        opponent who would not admit such things, denies all these questions.
        Thus he refuses the Sakavadin’s “indeed” simply for his view, but not in
        accordance with the doctrine.”

        Hope that helps. Let me know if you need anymore;-)

        With metta,

        Sarah
        =====


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        Get your free @... address at http://mail.english.yahoo.com.hk
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