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Re: [dsg] Re: Yuganaddha Sutta con'd: intellectual understanding and psychic experiences

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  • oreznoone@aol.com
    Hello this new guy chase8383 ... profitable. ... While I think that this is good advice in the situation at hand, and while this general position in hardly
    Message 1 of 4 , Dec 7, 2002
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      Hello "this new guy chase8383"

      >The second teacher, I don't think, denied the experiences. The middle
      >way is just to understand that they are experiences and nothing more. Don't
      >attach to them. Let them go. They are empty after all. They should not
      >be judged as real or not real. As good or bad. As profitable or not
      profitable.
      >As important or unimportant. An experience is just an experience.

      While I think that this is good advice in the situation at hand, and while
      this general position in hardly unique to yourself, I really have never
      gotten it. Let's take an instance of child abuse: Not bad? Not important? Not
      profitable or unprofitable?
      How do you reconcile "emptiness" with morality (sila)?
      (*If* you're going to say one's ultimate and one's conventional do relate the
      two, especially to something resembling reality, as in my example.)
      metta, stephen
    • chase8383 <dcwcc@webtv.net>
      Hi Stephen You said While I think that this is good advice in the situation at hand, and while this general position in hardly unique to yourself, I really
      Message 2 of 4 , Dec 7, 2002
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        Hi Stephen

        You said "While I think that this is good advice in the situation at hand, and while
        this general position in hardly unique to yourself, I really have never
        gotten it. Let's take an instance of child abuse: Not bad? Not important? Not
        profitable or unprofitable?
        How do you reconcile "emptiness" with morality (sila)?
        (*If* you're going to say one's ultimate and one's conventional do relate the
        two, especially to something resembling reality, as in my example.)"

        Stephen, I was talking about experiences of the mind. Meditative experiences. Visualizations etc. Not experiences such as child abuse. I think we all no the difference between an experience that takes place in the cinema of our mind and an expereince such as an adult abusing a child. Don't we?
      • oreznoone@aol.com
        Hello chase8383, I misunderstood your point. No, we do not all know the difference (between cinema of mind and reality). And there are many who advocate
        Message 3 of 4 , Dec 7, 2002
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          Hello chase8383,
          I misunderstood your point.
          No, we do not all know the difference (between "cinema of mind" and reality).
          And there are many who advocate seeing everything as a dream, an illusion;
          just an experience.
          However, James has been, I believe, clear, that he doesn't believe he's
          talking about a mental manifestation or hallucination but an actual physical
          presence. I thought you were speaking from that premise; or from some variant
          of the mind-only position.
          metta, stephen
        • chase8383 <dcwcc@webtv.net>
          Hi again Stephen You said I misunderstood your point. ... No, I don t belong to the mind only school. That may be important to state in here at the moment.
          Message 4 of 4 , Dec 7, 2002
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            Hi again Stephen

            You said "> I misunderstood your point.
            > No, we do not all know the difference (between "cinema of mind" and reality).
            > And there are many who advocate seeing everything as a dream, an illusion;
            > just an experience.
            > However, James has been, I believe, clear, that he doesn't believe he's
            > talking about a mental manifestation or hallucination but an actual physical
            > presence. I thought you were speaking from that premise; or from some variant
            > of the mind-only position."

            No, I don't belong to the mind only school. That may be important to state in here at the moment. I think your mind plays a key role in what you see, but I don't believe that if you turn your back on a tree it isn't there.

            Peace, David
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