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Re: [dsg] Re: ack!

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  • Sarah
    Hi Chris & Frank, ... If RobEp or Rob M (or anyone) had been inspired to ... .... This is great, Chris... I see you’ve taken on the List Cheer Leadership
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 1, 2002
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      Hi Chris & Frank,

      --- christine_forsyth <cforsyth@...> wrote: > A bit of Trivia:
      If RobEp or Rob M (or anyone) had been inspired to
      > write
      > yesterday and had a few replies, dsg would have broken an eight month
      > record on the number of posts. We must have all had more energy in
      > March. And what were you lot all doing in February and June, might I
      > ask - I see a need to lift your game? :))
      ....

      This is great, Chris... I see you’ve taken on the List Cheer Leadership
      without any prompting. We’ll add it to your accumulating titles. If you
      wish to give a monthly report (with right speech and no slander of
      course), no need to fear the ‘telling the truth even if it hurts and
      begins to resemble wrong speech’ when it comes to Frank;-)

      Frank, you suggest ‘the world can’t handle too many of my posts’ and I’m
      inclined to agree....rumours tell me we should be grateful for receiving
      the self-moderated ones here;-) I think a ‘whacky wit’ was about what I
      had in mind. You are getting plenty of brownie points and thankfully your
      earlier comment to Howard and Rob Ep on Herman’s homepage viewing was too
      obscure for me to follow. Luckily we are still blessed by Jesus on the
      homepage in Hong Kong (Asian censors know we have delicate atta-less souls
      here;-))

      Two suggestions for cash reserves in Paradise:

      1. Move to Koh Samui for half the year: - Great surf in winter months
      (forget June-August), a debating neighbour to challenge any idea you’ve
      ever had about Buddhism (read: Erik), occasional visits from us to join
      you in the surf, yoga and tai-chi on the beach and assistance with the
      debates with Erik, super cheap accomo and living (read: Erik can arrange
      it all), celestial maidens? (read: no comment).

      2. Maybe we could turn the ‘Abhidhamma for Family Insomnia’ into a
      best-seller between us. I have quite a few favourites already. While
      others count sheep, I count cetasikas in order (phassa, vedana,
      sanna.....) or paccaya (hetu, arammana, adhipati...). Usually I get lost
      and have to return to the start and that’s the point that sleep always
      kicks in. Just like one might introduce variations into an astanga series,
      one can start introducing the sub-categories if it gets easy.
      Of course there are many simpler ones like khandhas of Noble 8fold Path
      and then there are the hard ones like the 89 or 121 cittas (I’m falling
      asleep at the thought) and so on. We could add a few monopoly-type
      rules....you can’t pass a list until it’s without mistake or something
      like that, but that might only be acceptable to the ‘tell the truth even
      if it hurts’ members;-)
      *****

      Just to show we’re not merely following trivial pursuits and Heavenly
      Realms, let me quote from ‘Good Sleep’ (AN,3s,p.50 B.Bodhi trans) for
      those with greater confidence in the Suttas and for those who are beyond
      need of any cures for insomnia:

      “ “Now, prince, the lust, hatred and delusion by which that householder is
      tormented, and which cause him to sleep bacly, have been abandoned by the
      Tathagata, cut off at the root, made barren like palm-tree stumps,
      obliterated so that they are no more subject to arise in the future.
      Therefore, prince, I have slept well.”
      The brahmin who is quenched within
      Always sleeps happily;
      he does not cling to sensual desires,
      Free from props, one cool in mind.
      Having cut all straps of attachment,
      Removed care deep within the heart,
      the peaceful One sleeps happily,
      Attained to perfect peace of mind.”
      *****
      Sarah

      p.s. One last silly thought - Perhaps Christian sites have a Buddha
      blessing the homepage??
      ====================================================

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    • frank kuan
      ... Is Koh Samui on the big island of hawaii? Don t know about debating with Erik. His posts seem pretty sensible, even the Mahayana influenced ones. Group
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 1, 2002
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        --- Sarah <sarahdhhk@...> wrote:
        >
        > Two suggestions for cash reserves in Paradise:
        >
        > 1. Move to Koh Samui for half the year: - Great surf
        > in winter months
        > (forget June-August), a debating neighbour to
        > challenge any idea you�ve
        > ever had about Buddhism (read: Erik), occasional
        > visits from us to join
        > you in the surf, yoga and tai-chi on the beach and
        > assistance with the
        > debates with Erik, super cheap accomo and living
        > (read: Erik can arrange
        > it all), celestial maidens? (read: no comment).
        >

        Is Koh Samui on the big island of hawaii? Don't know
        about debating with Erik. His posts seem pretty
        sensible, even the Mahayana influenced ones. Group
        sitting would be nice though. Haven't had that in a
        long time.


        > 2. Maybe we could turn the �Abhidhamma for Family
        > Insomnia� into a
        > best-seller between us.

        I don't know if I could stay awake to help write it.
        Whenever my eyes get to the third syllable of the
        word "abhidhamma", I'm already half asleep.

        Speaking of dreams, I had a nightmare a few nights ago
        where I was getting murdered, but I was calm
        throughout the murder, and woke up calmly afterwards.
        My attitude throughout the dream was to not become to
        wrapped up in the drama of identifying with self and
        situations, and as a result I didn't really go through
        any kind of anxiety or pain.

        -fk


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      • frank kuan
        ... Glad you enjoy my posts. But trust me, the world can not handle the truth, or at least my interpretation of truth - not even most of the fine people on
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 1, 2002
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          --- epsteinrob <epsteinrob@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Frank!
          > Always enjoy your posts. Feel free to post more, we
          > can take it! : )

          Glad you enjoy my posts.
          But trust me, the world can not handle the truth, or
          at least my interpretation of truth - not even most
          of the fine people on this list.

          > Um...Frank, on a more important subject.....uh, how
          > do you feel about
          > having guests? : )
          >

          I have a studio here in Kauai, could probably have 3
          or 4 adults crash on the floor. Unbeatable location. 5
          minute walk to beach, 2 minute walk to middle of town.
          If any DSG'ers are serious about visiting, you can
          write me off line. Depending on timing, number of
          guests, I'd be happy to let you crash in my studio.

          -fk


          __________________________________________________
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        • Sarah
          Hi Frank, ... ..... Perhaps if there is a library with an atlas in Kaui you could take a look. Hint: forget Hawaii. Re debates with Erik; New Plan - enjoy the
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 1, 2002
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            Hi Frank,

            --- frank kuan <fcckuan@...> wrote: >

            > Is Koh Samui on the big island of hawaii? Don't know
            > about debating with Erik. His posts seem pretty
            > sensible, even the Mahayana influenced ones. Group
            > sitting would be nice though. Haven't had that in a
            > long time.
            .....
            Perhaps if there is a library with an atlas in Kaui you could take a look.
            Hint: forget Hawaii.

            Re debates with Erik; New Plan - enjoy the group sittings with him and
            then assist him in the debates when we visit;-)
            .....
            > I don't know if I could stay awake to help write it.
            > Whenever my eyes get to the third syllable of the
            > word "abhidhamma", I'm already half asleep.
            >
            > Speaking of dreams, I had a nightmare a few nights ago
            > where I was getting murdered, but I was calm
            > throughout the murder, and woke up calmly afterwards.
            > My attitude throughout the dream was to not become to
            > wrapped up in the drama of identifying with self and
            > situations, and as a result I didn't really go through
            > any kind of anxiety or pain.
            .....
            A chapter on Painless Nightmares with Abhidhamma would definitely help the
            sales;-) I’m not at all sure there can be awareness (of any kind) whilst
            dreaming but maybe threre were moments of wakefulness in betwen the
            dreaming. I have an idea we’ve discussed sleep and dreams before. No
            dreams for those that have eradicated defilements as discussed in the
            sutta.

            Btw, I meant to comment yesterday on your post to New Sarah about
            considering changing your name to an ‘unpronouncable symbol’.....I think
            we need to hear pretty good reasons here for any name changes (we get
            confused enough as it is). We know you don’t like accumulating ‘baggage’
            but a label does (like other concepts) offer much assistance and the
            ‘real’ concept label is best of all;-).

            Sarah
            =====
            p.s. Ken O, I think we will be a lot less confused by sticking to this and
            we don’t confuse you with Ken H. (also I’m pretty attached to the ‘O’ now
            ;-))
            =====


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          • Nina van Gorkom
            Dear Frank, thank you, I printed this out for Lodewijk (my husband), he wakes up overtired because of nightmares, every day. It is beyond control. The Dhamma
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 3, 2002
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              Dear Frank,
              thank you, I printed this out for Lodewijk (my husband), he wakes up
              overtired because of nightmares, every day. It is beyond control. The Dhamma
              is not a medicine for everything, but I handed him your post.
              You do have a sense of humor, I had to laugh so much:
              <For example, my parents are people of excellent
              virtue, yet they ended up with me. Bet they got a good
              lesson they'll never forget in how good kamma doesn't
              always ripen in the form of well behaved children. :)>

              Well Frank, I appreciate your presence, I am glad your parents put you on
              this world, but they are not the real cause as you know.

              <I just hung out with a couple of friends and their 6
              month old for a few hours. What a monumental effort
              maintaining baby! Really makes me appreciate what my
              parents had to go through, and what I don't want to go
              through.
              Better to be born into one of those deva realms where
              fully grown children spring forth on their birthday
              and (hopefully) potty trained, quiet and can feed
              themselves to a certain extent. :)>

              My nephew came with a little one and after an hour I almost started yelling,
              I lacked patience.

              op 02-09-2002 06:32 schreef frank kuan op fcckuan@...:
              >>
              > Speaking of dreams, I had a nightmare a few nights ago
              > where I was getting murdered, but I was calm
              > throughout the murder, and woke up calmly afterwards.
              > My attitude throughout the dream was to not become to
              > wrapped up in the drama of identifying with self and
              > situations, and as a result I didn't really go through
              > any kind of anxiety or pain.
              >
              N: This also goes for real life. Are we not wrapped up in dramas?
              Identifying with self and situations?
              With appreciation,
              Nina.

              >
              >
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • upasaka@aol.com
              Hi, Nina - In a message dated 9/3/02 1:00:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nilo@euronet.nl ... ============================== I hope your husband manages to find a
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 3, 2002
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                Hi, Nina -

                In a message dated 9/3/02 1:00:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nilo@...
                writes:


                > Dear Frank,
                > thank you, I printed this out for Lodewijk (my husband), he wakes up
                > overtired because of nightmares, every day. It is beyond control. The
                > Dhamma
                > is not a medicine for everything, but I handed him your post.
                >
                ==============================
                I hope your husband manages to find a "quick fix". If not, there is a
                longer term procedure that might help, the cultivation of lucid dreaming,
                where one is aware during a dream that it *is* a dream. (It is a bringing of
                mindfulness into the dream state.) What is useful in this is, among other
                things, the ability to take some control over what occurs in the dream, to
                change things, to greet "monsters" with lovingkindness. It really can work,
                but it requires regular practice. I used to engage in it a bit, and it is
                quite amazing. (But I'm no expert at all.)

                With metta,
                Howard

                /Thus is how ye shall see all this fleeting world: A star at dawn, a bubble
                in a stream, a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, a flickering lamp, a
                phantom, and a dream./ (From the Diamond Sutra)




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nina van Gorkom
                Dear Howard, It is so kind of you to react immediately to my post, giving a tip. I printed it out. Lodewijk said he will try. When he woke up he thought of
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 5, 2002
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                  Dear Howard,
                  It is so kind of you to react immediately to my post, giving a tip. I
                  printed it out. Lodewijk said he will try. When he woke up he thought of
                  your tip, but not during a nightmare. It is one of those things we have to
                  accept.
                  When awake he thinks of the perfections, the factors of enlightebnment, the
                  factors of the eightfold Path.
                  With many thanks,
                  Nina.
                  op 03-09-2002 20:01 schreef upasaka@... op upasaka@...:>>
                  > ==============================
                  > I hope your husband manages to find a "quick fix". If not, there is a
                  > longer term procedure that might help, the cultivation of lucid dreaming,
                  > where one is aware during a dream that it *is* a dream. (It is a bringing of
                  > mindfulness into the dream state.) What is useful in this is, among other
                  > things, the ability to take some control over what occurs in the dream, to
                  > change things, to greet "monsters" with lovingkindness. It really can work,
                  > but it requires regular practice. I used to engage in it a bit, and it is
                  > quite amazing. (But I'm no expert at all.)
                • upasaka@aol.com
                  Hi, Nina - In a message dated 9/5/02 1:01:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nilo@euronet.nl ... =========================== I hope it is helpful. What seems to be
                  Message 8 of 15 , Sep 5, 2002
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                    Hi, Nina -

                    In a message dated 9/5/02 1:01:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nilo@...
                    writes:


                    > Dear Howard,
                    > It is so kind of you to react immediately to my post, giving a tip. I
                    > printed it out. Lodewijk said he will try. When he woke up he thought of
                    > your tip, but not during a nightmare. It is one of those things we have to
                    > accept.
                    > When awake he thinks of the perfections, the factors of enlightebnment, the
                    > factors of the eightfold Path.
                    > With many thanks,
                    > Nina.
                    >
                    ===========================
                    I hope it is helpful. What seems to be important is to keep the idea
                    of being aware during dreaming up front in one's mind frequently during the
                    waking state, and especially right before going to sleep and when temporarily
                    awakening from sleep. Also suggested is "dream cultivation": planning, while
                    still awake, on specific dream content and on reacting in specific ways to
                    dream events, and also presetting in the mind a "cue" to notice in a dream, a
                    cue that reminds one that he/she is dreaming - for example, noticing one's
                    hands in the dream. Also, the intention to notice in a dream anything that is
                    odd, abnormal, strange, or "impossible" sometimes bears fruit in anabling the
                    dreamer to realize that "it is just a dream". There are many books and papers
                    on this, but the main thing is regularity of practice.

                    With metta,
                    Howard

                    /Thus is how ye shall see all this fleeting world: A star at dawn, a bubble
                    in a stream, a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, a flickering lamp, a
                    phantom, and a dream./ (From the Diamond Sutra)




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Nina van Gorkom
                    Dear Howard, thank you very much for the additional tips. Lodewijk is very grateful and will try. It will work in the long run. With appreciation, Nina.
                    Message 9 of 15 , Sep 7, 2002
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                      Dear Howard, thank you very much for the additional tips. Lodewijk is very
                      grateful and will try. It will work in the long run.
                      With appreciation,
                      Nina.

                      op 05-09-2002 19:47 schreef upasaka@... op upasaka@...:

                      > ===========================
                      > I hope it is helpful.
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