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Re: Lutes, flutes and falling over/Victor

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  • christine_forsyth
    Hi Victor, I think you could be right! :) The Seven Sets looks to be exactly what I was after. Thank you. metta, Christine ... book ...
    Message 1 of 30 , Jun 30 9:44 PM
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      Hi Victor,

      I think you could be right! :) The Seven Sets looks to be exactly
      what I was after. Thank you.

      metta,
      Christine

      --- In dhammastudygroup@y..., "yuzhonghao" <victoryu@s...> wrote:
      > Hi, Christine,
      >
      > Thank you for replying. I think you might be interested in this
      book
      >
      http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/thanissaro/wings/index.html
      >
      > Regards,
      > Victor
      >
      > --- In dhammastudygroup@y..., "christine_forsyth" <cforsyth@v...>
      > wrote:
      > > Hi Victor,
      > >
      > > Thank you for your reply and your reference to The Nava Sutta. I
      > had
      > > read part of this Sutta before and looked for it again, but not
      > under
      > > the title of The Ship.
      > > I like the chicken story, having kept chickens. It reminds me of
      > > many 'Poultry Characters' I have known, usually Bantams, who
      would
      > > become 'clucky', steal eggs from all the other hens, and
      generally
      > be
      > > bad tempered, peck anybody collecting eggs, and upset the whole
      > > flock. Putting the hen in a quiet secluded place, maybe in a box
      > > with a hessian bag as the door, on a nest of straw with her own
      > eggs,
      > > usually solved the civil disruption problem. Baby chickens only
      > > develop properly if the hens' behaviour is constant, consistent
      and
      > > concentrated, with the right conditions. :)
      > > The story of the Adze about the wearing down of the handle by
      > regular
      > > daily use suggests that you can't or (shouldn't?) try to measure
      > the
      > > small increments of progress and understanding - just diligently
      > keep
      > > at it and youll 'just know' when a breakthrough occurs....
      > > And, The Ship story (though first appearing to me to be about
      > > neglect) seems to say that using "Whatever comes' as practice,
      > > remaining devoted to development, is a way towards eradicating
      > > defilements.
      > >
      > > But, what a list of things to understand and develop ....
      > > The Four Frames of Reference
      > > The four right exertions
      > > the four bases of power
      > > the five faculties
      > > the five strengths
      > > the seven factors of awakening
      > > the Noble Eightfold Path
      > >
      > > :):) I'm disappointed Victor - no sutta references? I do hope
      > > they're all in one or two suttas or I'll be up all night trying
      to
      > > find, read and understand......:)
      > >
      > > metta,
      > > Christine
      > > --- In dhammastudygroup@y..., "yuzhonghao" <victoryu@s...> wrote:
      > > > Hi Christine,
      > > >
      > > > I don't know if you have come across this discourse or if it
      has
      > > been
      > > > discussed before.
      > > > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/samyutta/sn22-101.html
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In dhammastudygroup@y..., "christine_forsyth"
      <cforsyth@v...>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > > Dear Sarah and All,
      > > > >
      > > > > I accept that as Jon said a day or so ago "it is the
      awareness
      > > and
      > > > > understanding in and of themselves that lead to the
      > eradication
      > > of
      > > > > akusala, rather than any aspiration or determination
      inspired
      > by
      > > > that
      > > > > awareness and understanding."
      > > > >
      > > > > And Sarah says:"We can say that the purpose of studying,
      > > considering
      > > > > and developing mindfulness is in order for the wisdom to
      > develop
      > > > which
      > > > > decreases and eventually eradicates defilements. "
      > > > > But what happens in the long period before that is
      > > accomplished?
      > > > I
      > > > > keep wanting to 'do' something...to lessen the effect of the
      > > > > defilements, even 'disarm' them.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > I think that developing mindfulness is not enough. It is
      > necessary
      > > > but not sufficient for eradicating defilements.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > > The situation here and now for me is that emotions and
      > reactions
      > > > are
      > > > > the controllers. I'm treading water, and sometimes am
      > submerged
      > > by
      > > > a
      > > > > wave. It is very uncomfortable, for me and occasionally for
      > > > another.
      > > > > I don't think it can be attributed to the fact that maybe I
      am
      > > > now
      > > > > more mindful and aware of feelings, because often, I'm not.
      > It's
      > > > as
      > > > > if an underground stream has broken through that I'm trying
      to
      > > dam
      > > > up
      > > > > again.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > In order to eradicate defilements, there are other qualities to
      > be
      > > > developed than mindfulness.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Others seem to have learned to attenuate the power defilements
      > > > > have over their lives. I'd like to be in that group, but I
      > > have
      > > > to
      > > > > say that recently, after feeling I had some understanding,
      this
      > > > part
      > > > > of my life seems to have been all downhill.:)
      Accumulations
      > > and
      > > > > conditions.....
      > > > > As Nina's recent post on dosa said:
      > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastudygroup/message/13670
      > > > > "Even if we reason, the thoughts of annoyance keep coming
      back.
      > > > > Conditions. It
      > > > > seems we make progress, then we fall back. We are not non-
      > > > returners,
      > > > > and thus
      > > > > the latent tendency lies dormant in the citta. It will
      > condition
      > > > > akusala
      > > > > citta with dosa, and dosa always finds an object. If it is
      not
      > > the
      > > > > other
      > > > > person, it is the wind or the rain, or a broken glass.".
      > > > >
      > > > > I seem to be less alarmed now at the thought of
      > beginningless
      > > > time
      > > > > and the length of Samsara. I find myself thinking a lot
      > > > > lately "That's just the way it is..." Sometimes the fact that
      I
      > > > don't
      > > > > seem to make progress causes me to feel a little
      > > > discouraged .....
      > > > > like a cat looking at the moon and knowing it is out of
      reach.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Another way to see it is the simile in the discourse:
      > > > effluents/fermentations/asava is liken to the adze handle.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > But
      > > > > the only choices are to persevere, or give up. I remember
      > > reading
      > > > > on the plane to Singapore in the Perfection of
      > Determination. "We
      > > > may
      > > > > find that the development of right understanding hardly seems
      > to
      > > > make
      > > > > any progress but we should remember that the Buddha and his
      > > > > enlightened disciples had for innumerable lives maintained an
      > > > > unshakable resolution to reach the goal." So it is O.K. if
      > > progress
      > > > > is very slow, it's natural.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Best wishes with the practice.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Regards,
      > > > Victor
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