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Re: [dsg] Re: Perception is Conditioned

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear Ann, ... N: No, it is not composed of but arises together with the 8 inseparable ruupas. It is not one of them. As to visible object, this is one of the 8
    Message 1 of 24 , Sep 19, 2013
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      Dear Ann,
      Op 19 sep 2013, om 04:57 heeft glenjohnann het volgende geschreven:

      On reading it, I recall the inseparable rupas and how the various combinations account for the difference in "sound", "visible object". However, is sound composed of the 8 inseparable rupas, or is it one of them? 
      --------
      N: No, it is not composed of but arises together with the 8 inseparable ruupas. It is not one of them. 
      As to visible object, this is one of the 8 inseparable ruupas. 
      -------

      A: All of this information is interesting - but only useful if it assists with the development of understanding. Lots of thinking about it, but then I am reminded, what about the reality now? What about now? 
      ------
      N: Good you ask. If we would not know about different combinations of the 4 Great Elements arising together with sound, visible object, we would believe that there are not different sounds, different visible objects. We may think that we only see grey, and then the development would not be natural. 
      Knowledge about the elements helps so that we remember: awareness does not change the object, and awareness should be natural. Awareness and understanding of just what appears naturally.

      Nina.   

    • kenhowardau
      Hi Jon, ---- J: Different kalapas of rupas are involved in the making of each sound, hence the different kinds of sound. These differences mean that
      Message 2 of 24 , Sep 20, 2013
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         Hi Jon,


        ----

        <. . .>
        > J:  Different kalapas of rupas are involved in the making of each sound, hence the different kinds of sound.  These differences mean that sounds differ, and not just in the degree of their pleasantness.
        ----

        KH: Thanks Jon. No prizes for guessing my next question! What makes kalapas different? 

        I was content with my theory that the differences between sounds were due to accumulations in the citta rather than to inherent differences in the sounds.  That seemed plausible. Now I will have to learn the right theory. 

        Ken H
      • jonoabb
        Hi KenH J: Different kalapas of rupas are involved in the making of each sound, hence the different kinds of sound. These differences mean that sounds
        Message 3 of 24 , Sep 20, 2013
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          Hi KenH 


          > J:  Different kalapas of rupas are involved in the making of each sound, hence the different kinds of sound.  These differences mean that sounds differ, and not just in the degree of their pleasantness.
          ----

          KH: Thanks Jon. No prizes for guessing my next question! What makes kalapas different? 

          J:  The wording of my original post was a bit lose.  I should have said that the rupas of each kalapa are different.  And rupas are different by conditions :-))

          Jon
        • kenhowardau
          Hi Jon J: The wording of my original post was a bit lose. I should have said that the rupas of each kalapa are different. And rupas are different by
          Message 4 of 24 , Sep 21, 2013
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            Hi Jon


            > J:  The wording of my original post was a bit lose.  I should have said that the rupas of each kalapa are different.  And rupas are different by conditions :-))

            KH: Thanks, that brings us back to where we started. :-) As Ann asked: in which ways are they different by conditions?

            I am sure your, and Nina's, answers from the texts are right, (volume, I think, was one way) but I want to know why they are right. I want to know how they fit in perfectly with the rest of the Abhidhamma to describe the way things are.

            Leave it with me until I've got some sensible questions. :-)

            Ken H




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