Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

e-notes from Vietnam 14 - Da Lat

Expand Messages
  • Sarah Abbott
    Dear Friends, After a long day of travel yesterday, we re now enjoying some mountain fresh air in Da Lat for a couple of days before returning to Thailand.
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 11, 2013
      Dear Friends,

      After a long day of travel yesterday, we're now enjoying some mountain fresh air in Da Lat for a couple of days before returning to Thailand. Just our Thai friends and us now - excursions and a good and well-deserved rest for A.Sujin. Everyone's very cheery, having fun and everyone is very kind and considerate. 

      On the bus journey yesterday, Jon had a long discussion with one Vietnamese friend who is a scientist and believed there is panna when following scientific pursuits. On a few other topics he had disagreed with us, but by the end of the long journey, he told me he now agreed with us on these points! At the same time I had lovely, lively discussions with Lan and another Vietnamese friends on all conditioned dhammas being dukkha, vedana arising each moment, seeing now, visible object now and more.

      At lunch and whilst wandering near a waterfall, Jon and I had some brief chats with a Thai friend about pariyatti - understanding about realities now. He mentioned some details he'd heard and read, but so easily it can be thinking about book study or 'delirious thinking' with the name 'pariyatti' rather than the beginning of understanding of what appears now. I also had a chat with a friend whose daughter is studying Performing Arts. She was concerned that this was the wrong path, but I reminded her that there is seeing now, seeing whatever one's way of life is. Understanding can develop anytime at all.

      Back to Vang Tau and my notes.

      Someone asked about sleepiness and what is there.

      AS: Wanting to know? Attachment!
      What appears? It can be understood.
      At the moment of no understanding, just wanting not to have it - but will still arise when there are conditions.
      ****
      Another questioner mentioned a monk she had listened to who had disrobed and got married and something about other friends in relationships. She feels confused.

      AS: Dhamma! Dhamma can be kusala or akusala. It shows the anattaness of all dhammas - only dhammas, no person or people. There is disappointment when one thinks one can control. When there is understanding of dhammas as not controllable, there is no disappointment, because dhammas are understood. As long as anyone is not an ariyan, there must be all kinds of akusala.
      ***
      Metta

      Sarah
      ======
    • buddhatrue
      Hi Sarah, I just clicked on this link because it suddenly popped up and I must say I really enjoyed your update! So you are traveling through Vietnam now? That
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 11, 2013
        Hi Sarah,

        I just clicked on this link because it suddenly popped up and I must say I really enjoyed your update! So you are traveling through Vietnam now? That sounds really nice (sorry I haven't followed this entire thread so I am just jumping in). It sounds really nice that you are traveling through Vietnam on your way to Thailand. That mountain fresh air sounds wonderful! I am now living in Taiwan smog! :-)

        I am glad that you straightened out the scientist!!! I get really sick and fed up with scientists who think they have discovered the "truth" using "scientific method". What a joke! In my opinion, the holy scientific method is a fool's errand....but you didn't hear that from me! ;-))

        But, to be brutally honest, I think KS's comments about the monk disrobing is also nonsense. She shouldn't try to minimize someone else's shock over a faithful monk suddenly disrobing! This is a very shocking thing and a very horrible thing!! And it deserves more careful consideration of the circumstances than the trite condolences she received. Sorry, but I am not that enamored with KS's responses. She seems very uncaring and very unaware/wise to me .

        Metta,
        James

         



        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, <dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        Dear Friends,

        After a long day of travel yesterday, we're now enjoying some mountain fresh air in Da Lat for a couple of days before returning to Thailand. Just our Thai friends and us now - excursions and a good and well-deserved rest for A.Sujin. Everyone's very cheery, having fun and everyone is very kind and considerate. 

        On the bus journey yesterday, Jon had a long discussion with one Vietnamese friend who is a scientist and believed there is panna when following scientific pursuits. On a few other topics he had disagreed with us, but by the end of the long journey, he told me he now agreed with us on these points! At the same time I had lovely, lively discussions with Lan and another Vietnamese friends on all conditioned dhammas being dukkha, vedana arising each moment, seeing now, visible object now and more.

        At lunch and whilst wandering near a waterfall, Jon and I had some brief chats with a Thai friend about pariyatti - understanding about realities now. He mentioned some details he'd heard and read, but so easily it can be thinking about book study or 'delirious thinking' with the name 'pariyatti' rather than the beginning of understanding of what appears now. I also had a chat with a friend whose daughter is studying Performing Arts. She was concerned that this was the wrong path, but I reminded her that there is seeing now, seeing whatever one's way of life is. Understanding can develop anytime at all.

        Back to Vang Tau and my notes.

        Someone asked about sleepiness and what is there.

        AS: Wanting to know? Attachment!
        What appears? It can be understood.
        At the moment of no understanding, just wanting not to have it - but will still arise when there are conditions.
        ****
        Another questioner mentioned a monk she had listened to who had disrobed and got married and something about other friends in relationships. She feels confused.

        AS: Dhamma! Dhamma can be kusala or akusala. It shows the anattaness of all dhammas - only dhammas, no person or people. There is disappointment when one thinks one can control. When there is understanding of dhammas as not controllable, there is no disappointment, because dhammas are understood. As long as anyone is not an ariyan, there must be all kinds of akusala.
        ***
        Metta

        Sarah
        ======
      • sarahprocterabbott
        Hi James, --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, wrote: I just clicked on this link because it suddenly popped up and I
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 11, 2013

           

          Hi James,

          --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, <dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          I just clicked on this link because it suddenly popped up and I must say I really enjoyed your update! So you are traveling through Vietnam now? That sounds really nice (sorry I haven't followed this entire thread so I am just jumping in). It sounds really nice that you are traveling through Vietnam on your way to Thailand. That mountain fresh air sounds wonderful! I am now living in Taiwan smog! :-)
          ...
          S: Thanks, James! Yes we're travelling with friends from Thailand at the invitation of our many Vietnamese friends who have a very sincere interest in the Dhamma. We were holding discussions in Saigon and a place on the coast, Vung Tau. You can see some of Jagkrit's photos (including a new nice one with himself and his wife) in the DSG album. 
          ...

          >J: I am glad that you straightened out the scientist!!! I get really sick and fed up with scientists who think they have discovered the "truth" using "scientific method". What a joke! In my opinion, the holy scientific method is a fool's errand....but you didn't hear that from me! ;-))
          ....
          S: Yes, attachment rather than panna is what motivates such endeavours - but that's the same with almost all our daily endeavours! As for the getting "sick and fed up" with scientists, yahoo, politicians, bad monks or anything else, as we know, the real problems, as taught by the Buddha, come down to lobha (attachment), dosa (aversion/anger) and moha (ignorance) at this moment whilst thinking in such ways. Why make life more difficult by being so distressed by such issues? That doesn't mean we don't take action or try to help when we can, of course!
          ...

          >J: But, to be brutally honest, I think KS's comments about the monk disrobing is also nonsense. She shouldn't try to minimize someone else's shock over a faithful monk suddenly disrobing! 
          ....

          S: Like the lady, we may have expectations and hold a monk in high regard or put him on a pedestal in our minds. I think we forget that when we pay respect to the Triple Gem, it is to the great virtues of the Buddha, the Teachings and the Sangha - those who became enlightened whilst following the path, that we pay respect. If we expect monks or lay people to behave a certain way, there's bound to be disappointment.
          ....
          Metta

          Sarah
          ===========
        • buddhatrue
          Hi Sarah, I am going to try and reply to your post in-text but it going to be hard in this format. I m sorry if I screw up. ... S: Thanks, James! Yes we re
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 11, 2013
            Hi Sarah,
            I am going to try and reply to your post in-text but it going to be hard in this format. I'm sorry if I screw up.

            ...
            S: Thanks, James! Yes we're travelling with friends from Thailand at the invitation of our many Vietnamese friends who have a very sincere interest in the Dhamma. We were holding discussions in Saigon and a place on the coast, Vung Tau. You can see some of Jagkrit's photos (including a new nice one with himself and his wife) in the DSG album. 
            ...

            James: Yes, I have looked through the many photos posted recently. I think you look sweet and caring as usual; I think that Jon looks very nice nice and I really laughed at the funny captions Jagkrit added to his photos; and I really didn't like the pictures of KS. Wearing sunglasses?? Really? The people came to see her and listen to her and she wore sunglasses inside a building! Terrible! Horrible!! Sorry, but I have been given little reason to warm up to her.
            But I just love Jagkrit!! If he wasn't married I would fly to Thailand right now to make him my husband immediately! :-))) He is such a sweetie!! :-) Love him!

            ....
            S: Yes, attachment rather than panna is what motivates such endeavours - but that's the same with almost all our daily endeavours! As for the getting "sick and fed up" with scientists, yahoo, politicians, bad monks or anything else, as we know, the real problems, as taught by the Buddha, come down to lobha (attachment), dosa (aversion/anger) and moha (ignorance) at this moment whilst thinking in such ways. Why make life more difficult by being so distressed by such issues?

            James: Yes, of course you are right. I do tend to respond with anger and emotion first. That isn't the right way to respond and I am glad Sarah that you reminded me of that. I will try to work on that- I respect my friends who try to give me helpful advice.

             That doesn't mean we don't take action or try to help when we can, of course!

            James: Sarah, I am so glad you added that caveat! We do have to act when acting is necessary...even if it is to give a friend friendly advice.
            .......

            S: Like the lady, we may have expectations and hold a monk in high regard or put him on a pedestal in our minds. I think we forget that when we pay respect to the Triple Gem, it is to the great virtues of the Buddha, the Teachings and the Sangha - those who became enlightened whilst following the path, that we pay respect. If we expect monks or lay people to behave a certain way, there's bound to be disappointment.

            James: I agree and I disagree. This is a super-complicated issue and I don't really have time to go into it right now. Sebastian is about to come home and he will probably be wondering why I was so in love with Jangkrit over the Internet! I should go before I get into even more trouble!
            ....
            Metta

            Sarah
            ===========

            Metta,
            James
          • sarahprocterabbott
            Hi James, J: I am going to try and reply to your post in-text but it going to be hard in this format. I m sorry if I screw up. ... S: You got it! It is an
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 11, 2013

              Hi James, 

               
              >J: I am going to try and reply to your post in-text but it going to be hard in this format. I'm sorry if I screw up.
              ...
              S: You got it! It is an adjustment for us all - but if we can work it out, others can too!

              Just one clarification:
              ...
              >: James: Yes, I have looked through the many photos posted recently. I think you look sweet and caring as usual; I think that Jon looks very nice nice and I really laughed at the funny captions Jagkrit added to his photos; and I really didn't like the pictures of KS. Wearing sunglasses?? Really? The people came to see her and listen to her and she wore sunglasses inside a building! Terrible! Horrible!! Sorry, but I have been given little reason to warm up to her.
              ...
              S: She's wearing sunglasses because she has a problem with her eyes - very susceptible to glare in recent years. Doctor's orders. Usually she needs to close her eyes and rest them a lot, like she's able to do now the sessions have finished. Of course, you weren't to know this and so your comments are understandable. People coming to the sessions were told as I recall.
              ....
              >J:But I just love Jagkrit!! If he wasn't married I would fly to Thailand right now to make him my husband immediately! :-))) He is such a sweetie!! :-) Love him!
              ....
              S: :-))  Yes, we all do!

              Hope you come to Bangkok one day to join us all.

              Metta

              Sarah
              ======

            • kevinf596
              Hi James: Just an note. You said: James: Wearing sunglasses?? Really? The people came to see her and listen to her and she wore sunglasses inside a
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 11, 2013

                Hi James:


                Just an note.  You said:


                >James: "Wearing sunglasses?? Really? The people came to see her and listen to her and she wore sunglasses inside a building! Terrible! Horrible!! Sorry, but I have been given little reason to warm up to her.

                But I just love Jagkrit!! If he wasn't married I would fly to Thailand right now to make him my husband immediately!"


                Kevin:  You should respect all teachers, even the ones you disagree with, or can't find benefit in.  They are the ones that know more than you, and they are sharing their knowledge. 


                Kevin 




              • kevinf596
                Hi Sarah, Sarah wrote: She s wearing sunglasses because she has a problem with her eyes - very susceptible to glare in recent years. Doctor s orders. Usually
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 11, 2013

                  Hi Sarah,


                  Sarah wrote:  " She's wearing sunglasses because she has a problem with her eyes - very susceptible to glare in recent years. Doctor's orders. Usually she needs to close her eyes and rest them a lot, like she's able to do now the sessions have finished. Of course, you weren't to know this and so your comments are understandable. People coming to the sessions were told as I recall."


                  Kevin:  That is very sad.  I wonder if she has seen an Ayurvedic doctor and also received treatments from David.  That might help.  Maybe you should encourage her a little.  : )


                  All the best,


                  Kevin




                • Kevin F
                  ... Kevin:  Well, maybe not the needles.  : )  Kevin http://theliteracysite.greatergood.com/clickToGive/lit/home www.ripple.org
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 11, 2013
                    Hi Sarah, all:

                    >"That is very sad.  I wonder if she has seen an Ayurvedic doctor and also received treatments from David.  That might help.  Maybe you should encourage her a little.  : )"

                    Kevin:  Well, maybe not the needles.  : )

                     Kevin








                  • buddhatrue
                    Hi Sarah, Please forgive my idiotic post. I thought about quitting DSG and all of my Yahoo groups because the visiting experience makes me very agitated and
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 12, 2013
                      Hi Sarah,

                      Please forgive my idiotic post. I thought about quitting DSG and all of my Yahoo groups because the visiting experience makes me very agitated and irritated. I pick up vibes easily and the vibes I get from all of the members are very angry and frustrated vibes. The longer I stay logged into a group and post messages, the more and more irritated I find myself getting. But, instead of quitting I guess I just need to limit my exposure.

                      Metta,
                      James

                       



                    • gazita2002
                      Hallo James, do you really think all vibes from members are angry and frustrated vibes? Of course, only you can know what you feel, I m not suggesting
                      Message 10 of 11 , Sep 13, 2013

                        Hallo James,


                        do you really think all vibes from members are angry and frustrated vibes? Of course, only you can know what you feel, I'm not suggesting otherwise.


                        Don't stop posting, I enjoy reading yr posts, sharp as they may sometimes be; limit your exposure if you feel its beneficial.

                        Anything that arises - pleasant feeling, unpleasant feeling, anger, attachment, visible object etc are dhammas that can be known as just that - dhammas that arise and fall away, and those dhammas that have fallen away never arise again, ever. Of course, they condition similar arisings but they fall away too. I think the more we attempt to control our behavior or others we encounter problems. 


                        There seems to be this very fine line between no control and control and unless there is understanding of present moment events then we continue to be frustrated. 

                        One of the reasons I enjoy yr posts, and not sure if enjoy is really the right word, is I can relate to your perceived (to me) impulsiveness and frustration as i and f is something I know personally.

                         

                        I sometimes wonder if I was a happy, jolly person would I have as much interest in dhamma but thats just a whole lot of conceptual thinking and really not worth persuing!!!!


                        Some friends say to me 'hang in there' but I just want to sock 'em when I hear that, altho I'm sure its coming from a friendly space, its my own kileasa that's really the issue here.


                        with metta,

                        azita



                        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, <buddhatrue@...> wrote:

                        Hi Sarah,

                        Please forgive my idiotic post. I thought about quitting DSG and all of my Yahoo groups because the visiting experience makes me very agitated and irritated. I pick up vibes easily and the vibes I get from all of the members are very angry and frustrated vibes. The longer I stay logged into a group and post messages, the more and more irritated I find myself getting. But, instead of quitting I guess I just need to limit my exposure.

                        Metta,
                        James

                         



                      • buddhatrue
                        Hi Azita, Thank you for your sweet e-mail. I am still going to participate, but not for extended periods. I feel that things are starting to mellow out anyway-
                        Message 11 of 11 , Sep 13, 2013

                          Hi Azita,


                          Thank you for your sweet e-mail. I am still going to participate, but not for extended periods. I feel that things are starting to mellow out anyway- not much anyone can do about the new format. It is very hard to explain to someone else what I feel when they don't experience the same thing. The technical term is psychometry, which in my case isn't limited to touch. And it isn't a very "cool" ability- it's usually a pain in the ........


                          Yes, you are right, I am very impulsive. I guess I wasn't born with a "tact" gene. :-) I don't know how Sarah and Jon have put up with me for as long as they have.


                          Metta,

                          James

                          p.s. I also get very irritated when someone tells me to "hang in there". The whole world is on fire with ignorance and suffering and they want me to "hang in there". Please!! They might mean well but they are just fooling themselves.







                          --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, <dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          Hallo James,


                          do you really think all vibes from members are angry and frustrated vibes? Of course, only you can know what you feel, I'm not suggesting otherwise.


                          Don't stop posting, I enjoy reading yr posts, sharp as they may sometimes be; limit your exposure if you feel its beneficial.

                          Anything that arises - pleasant feeling, unpleasant feeling, anger, attachment, visible object etc are dhammas that can be known as just that - dhammas that arise and fall away, and those dhammas that have fallen away never arise again, ever. Of course, they condition similar arisings but they fall away too. I think the more we attempt to control our behavior or others we encounter problems. 


                          There seems to be this very fine line between no control and control and unless there is understanding of present moment events then we continue to be frustrated. 

                          One of the reasons I enjoy yr posts, and not sure if enjoy is really the right word, is I can relate to your perceived (to me) impulsiveness and frustration as i and f is something I know personally.

                           

                          I sometimes wonder if I was a happy, jolly person would I have as much interest in dhamma but thats just a whole lot of conceptual thinking and really not worth persuing!!!!


                          Some friends say to me 'hang in there' but I just want to sock 'em when I hear that, altho I'm sure its coming from a friendly space, its my own kileasa that's really the issue here.


                          with metta,

                          azita



                          --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, <buddhatrue@...> wrote:

                          Hi Sarah,

                          Please forgive my idiotic post. I thought about quitting DSG and all of my Yahoo groups because the visiting experience makes me very agitated and irritated. I pick up vibes easily and the vibes I get from all of the members are very angry and frustrated vibes. The longer I stay logged into a group and post messages, the more and more irritated I find myself getting. But, instead of quitting I guess I just need to limit my exposure.

                          Metta,
                          James

                           



                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.