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Re: [dsg] Samma samadhi vs. ekagatta cetasika with any kusala (Nina)

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  • philip
    Dear Nina ... Ph: Sorry, I should know this, but what is the difference between samadhi that is kusala and samma samadhi of the eightfold path? Does the latter
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 19, 2013
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      Dear Nina


      > N: sammaa means right and it applies to samaadhi that is kusala, or, ekagatta cetasika that is kusala. Sammaa samaadhi of the eightfold Path refers to ekagatta cetasika that is a factor of the eightfold Path, accompanying right understanding (sammaadi.t.thi) of the eightfold Path.

      Ph: Sorry, I should know this, but what is the difference between samadhi that is kusala and samma samadhi of the eightfold path? Does the latter refer to what I have seen called "path moments" that are attainments when the object is nibbana and defilemts are eradicated or something like that? I am not so interested in attainments but I guess I should understand what happens in such rarefied cases.

      Thank you


      Phil
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Dear Phil, ... N: When someone who has skill for jhaana accumulates conditions for jhaana, for a high degree of calm, there is sammaa samaadhi, but not of the
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 20, 2013
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        Dear Phil,
        Op 19 jul 2013, om 15:06 heeft philip het volgende geschreven:

        > what is the difference between samadhi that is kusala and samma samadhi of the eightfold path?
        ------
        N: When someone who has skill for jhaana accumulates conditions for jhaana, for a high degree of calm, there is sammaa samaadhi, but not of the eightfold Path.
        -------
        > Ph: Does the latter refer to what I have seen called "path moments" that are attainments when the object is nibbana and defilemts are eradicated or something like that? I am not so interested in attainments but I guess I should understand what happens in such rarefied cases.
        ------
        N: Also before that, when he develops vipassanaa. It refers not only to the Path that is lokuttara.
        -----
        Nina.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • philip
        Dear Nina Thanks for the explanation. Phil
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 20, 2013
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          Dear Nina

          Thanks for the explanation.

          Phil
        • htoonaing@ymail.com
          ... Htoo: Dear Phil, Nina and all, As Nina has answered very well and responded to Phil, I think I am now not in the state of prohibition or inhibition .
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 21, 2013
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            --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "philip" <philco777@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Dear Group
            >
            > This question is for Nina. (Please abstain from answering, Htoo, until after Nina has responded, thanks)
            >
            > I am confused about the idea of " samma samadhi." Is it not the same as the ekagatta cetasika that arises with every kusala citta?
            >
            > Thanks
            >
            > Phil
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            Htoo:

            Dear Phil, Nina and all,

            As Nina has answered very well and responded to Phil, I think I am now not in the state of 'prohibition' or 'inhibition'.

            'Sammaa' means 'right'. This right is exact right. If something is 3 feet long it has 3 feet in its length. One feet-square has a foot in length and a foot in breadth. That square is identical with another square that has a foot length and a foot breadth. 3 feet radiused circle has 3 feet in its radius. That circle is identical with another circle which has a radius of 3 feet.

            'Samaadhi' 'Samatha' 'concentration' seem synonyms. When fishing one has to have a good concentration. When shooting a beast a hunter has to have a good concentration. It is concentration. Not samaadhi. But 'an adjective' is added to it as 'micchaa'. So micchaa-samaadhi is actually not samaadhi. Micchaa-samaadhi does not have 19 good-mental-factors and it does not have pannaa. It may be wisdom but not panna. Wisdom to fish, wisdom to hunt. This wisdom is not panna.

            Difference between 'kusala sammaadhi' and 'sammaa-samaadhi of NEP':

            Kusala samaadhi is there in 'kaamaavacara-dvihetuka-mahaa-kusala cittas which are javana cittas'. Also in 'kaamaavacara-tihetuka-mahaa-kusala cittas which are javana cittas'. Dvihetuka cittas do not comprise "panna" at all.

            Jhaana cittas are ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS tihetuka cittas. Jhaana freeze iriyaapatha (sitting, standing, lying not walking). If someone has been in jhaana that jhaana is tihetuka and with panna. If not jhaana then kusala cittas may be dvihetuka cittas (without panna) or tihetuka cittas with panna.

            Anyway jhaanas are always tihetuka and with panna while "so called understanding present moment" may or may not have panna. If understand and like that understanding in subtle way in the power of ta.nhaa or lobha than that "so called understanding present moment" is akusala.

            If there is jhaana this never be akusala.

            So jhaana is sure that it is with sammaa-samaadhi.

            With Unlimited Metta,

            Htoo Naing
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