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Re: anattaa.

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  • sarah
    Dear Htoo, ... ... S: I think that what matters is what the Buddha taught. There is no reference to concentrating on the abdomen in the ancient Pali texts. .
    Message 1 of 56 , Jul 18, 2013
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      Dear Htoo,

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "htoonaing@..." <htoonaing@...> wrote:

      > > > Mahaasii instruct to concentrate on abdomen. Rising and falling. AT first call in the mind as 'rising and falling'. Later instructed to concentrate on the sense of 'tenseness' and 'looseness'. Paramattha is there. It is vaayo. Vaayo here works as object. It is ruupa. It is vayo pho.t.thabba. So it is kaayaanupassanaa.
      > ...
      > S: Yes, this is what Mahasi Sayadaw taught, but it is not what the Buddha taught. There is no concentrating on the abdomen in the Tipitaka or ancient commenteris, no first "call in the mind as 'rising and falling' etc, then the later insturctions you mention.
      > -------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Htoo:
      >
      > This is because disparity between two persons two people. Your brain's wave length and Mahasi Sayadaw's brain's wave length are totally unmatched.
      ...
      S: I think that what matters is what the Buddha taught. There is no reference to concentrating on the abdomen in the ancient Pali texts.
      .
      >S: Such instructions are not compatible with the development of satipatthana and the understanding of dhammas as anatta.
      ----------------------------------------------------
      > Sarah:
      >
      > They are based on an idea of a self being able to select an object and a looking for a short-cut, a simplification to develop awareness, motivated by a wish for results, a growth of understanding, but not an understanding of what realities, such as hardness, motion are. There is no understanding of what is meant by kaayaanupassanaa at such times.
      > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Htoo:
      >
      > This is totally wrong.
      >
      > There are things which stop arising of magga ~naa.na. One of them is accusation on simless saints.
      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
      ..
      S: I have no interest in 'accusations' - I'm only interested in discussing realities and the path as taught by the Buddha.
      ...
      --------------------------------------------------------------
      > Sarah:
      >
      > There are always realities - it doesn't depend on the way one walks but on the understanding as to whether there is any awareness. If there is any idea of slowing down and trying to be aware, it is wrong view and practice which will just impede such awareness.
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Htoo:
      >
      > This is why some follow one tradition and another follow another tradition. Nissayas are different. You can choose not to meditate. You can choose to understand dhamma arising now whatever way you want.
      > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

      S: Actually, no one to choose anything....just more conditioned dhammas rolling on.
      ...


      > Can anatta be seen directly without anicca?
      ...
      S: If there is not the understanding of dhammas as dhammas, namas as namas, anatta, rupas as rupas, anatta and the realisation of the the first two tender insights, there will never be the understanding of dhammas as anicca. Here I am referring to the specific characteristics of realities.
      ...
      > If go through abhidhammaa more than 100,000 dhammas and these cannot be directly seen in real life.
      ...
      S: We don't have to count dhammas. What appears can be known, first by intellectual right understanding then by direct right understanding. It depends on accumulations as to what dhammas may be known now.

      I greatly appreciate your contributions and the discussions once more, Htoo. It doesn't matter that there are disagreements - that's why we're here discussing!

      Metta

      Sarah
      =====
    • sarah
      Dear Alex, ... .... S: It s an illusion, Alex. Just thinking which is conditioned with sanna which marks and remembers each object. This is how a baby learns
      Message 56 of 56 , Aug 25 6:11 AM
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        Dear Alex,

        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "truth_aerator" <truth_aerator@...> wrote:

        > >S:Can you control what seeing sees now, what hearing hears now, what >thinking thinks about now?
        > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
        >
        >A: I can decide to look to the left and see what is there. I can decide to look to the right and see there. I can decide to listen to this or that mp3 file on my computer.
        >
        > If I decide to think "what is 1+1?" I can do that.
        ....
        S: It's an illusion, Alex. Just thinking which is conditioned with sanna which marks and remembers each object. This is how a baby learns to recognise objects or a child learns to count. Just conditioned dhammas...
        ...

        > >Can you have calm at will now? Can you control whether pleasant or >painful bodily feeling arises now or not?
        > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
        >
        >A: I don't have much skill in samatha yet, but those people who do - often can control many things about what they feel and don't feel.
        ....
        S: Never mind about "those people". Now, when there is wise reflection about present realities, such as pleasant or unpleasant bodily feeling or tangible object experienced, the citta is calm....for a moment.
        ...

        > >S: Is seeing dhamma? Is visible object dhamma? When hardness is >experienced now, is it real? Does it belong to a self?
        > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
        >
        >
        >A: It depends what is implied by "belonging to a self".
        ...
        S: There is just the experiencing of hardness. No self involved at all at such moments.

        Metta

        Sarah
        p.s I'll have to ask others to continue these discussions for now.
        ======
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