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[dsg] Re: The Buddha & His Disciples Are Not Concepts

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  • upasaka_howard
    Hi, Sukin - ... HCW: An example is any birth defect. You tell me - does this not bring a lifetime of consequences within the namarupic stream of interrelated
    Message 1 of 483 , May 12, 2013
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      Hi, Sukin -

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Sukinder <sukinder@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Howard,
      >
      >
      > > > Is the seeing of a dwarf different from that of a giant? Is the
      > > > attachment or aversion which follows the sense experiences any less in
      > > > the one as compared to the other? Is the aversion of someone with a
      > > > birth defect greater than that of a normal person?
      > > -----------------------------
      > > HCW:
      > > While you're asking rhetorical questions: Is what you write above an
      > > answer?? (Rupas, early on, are conditions for very much that occurs in
      > > the future, often for an entire lifetime.)
      > >
      >
      > I thought that I was addressing your question.
      > A two feet dwarf and the eight feet giant, what difference when it comes
      > to moment to moment experiences? By "rupas, early on" what particular
      > kind are you referring to? Do any rupas last longer than 17 moments of
      > citta?
      ------------------------------
      HCW:
      An example is any birth defect. You tell me - does this not bring a lifetime of consequences within the namarupic stream of interrelated dhammas we call "the person"?
      -------------------------------

      >
      >
      > > > When it comes to reality, I know impermanence which I believe the
      > > > "only-at-the-moment conditionality" best illustrates, but I don't
      > > > understand change. Can you tell me what this "change" is?
      > > ------------------------------------
      > > HCW:
      > > No.
      > >
      >
      > I must ask, why?
      -------------------------------
      HCW
      Because it must be experienced, not described in words.
      -------------------------------
      >
      >
      > > > It may be true, but you have not yet explained what this
      > > > "interrelationship" is all about. Until then, the mental picture that I
      > > > presently have, does appear to be about "atta".
      > > ------------------------------------
      > > HCW:
      > > I find it hard to believe that you are unfamiliar with interrelationships.
      > >
      >
      > So you think that I was intentionally misleading you?
      -----------------------------------------
      HCW:
      No. I think you are simply enmeshed in theory and intellect instead of direct experience.
      ---------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > > > > > Is there a place for doubt in the Dhamma? Either one understands
      > > at the
      > > > > > level of pariyatti, patipatti or pativedha and knows it, or one
      > > does
      > > > > not
      > > > > > understand at all.
      > > > > -------------------------------------
      > > > > HCW:
      > > > > This strikes me as quite similar to what devout Moslems would say of
      > > > > Islam, devout Jews of Judaism, and so on. The Buddha warned against
      > > > > such attitudes.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > So you consider Islam and Judaism to point at the Four Noble Truths
      > > > which is "now," just as the Dhamma does?
      > > ------------------------------------
      > > HCW:
      > > I said nothing along such lines. What you are asking is a
      > > non-sequitur. Actually, it happens that I find much commonality
      > > between Judaism and the Dhamma, but that is irrelevant to what I said
      > > above. What I spoke about above is failure to distinguish, in thought
      > > and speech, between believing and knowing. The Buddha csrtsinly tsught
      > > that one dedicated to truth distinguishes these.
      > > -----------------------------------
      > >
      >
      > No you didn't say it. But had you considered the fact that I am coming
      > from the Buddha's teachings, which unlike other teachings, is about that
      > which can be proven now, you'd not compare my statement with that of
      > Moslems and Jews.
      ------------------------------
      HCW:
      I WOULD, because you speak as if you know when you merely believe.
      -------------------------------
      >
      > Metta,
      >
      > Sukin
      =================================
      With metta,
      Howard

      Unreal and Real

      /See how the world together with the devas has self-conceit for what is not-self. Enclosed by mind-and-body it imagines, 'This is real.' Whatever they imagine it to be, it is quite different from that. It is unreal, of a false nature and perishable. Nibbana, not false in nature, that the Noble Ones know as true. Indeed, by the penetration of the true, they are completely stilled and realize final deliverance./

      (From the Dvayatanupassana Sutta)
    • jonoabb
      Hi Rob E RE: Hi Jon. RE: I will get into the next part about the Satipatthana sutta later, as I need to look at it to continue the discussion. J: Glad to
      Message 483 of 483 , Oct 1, 2013
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        Hi Rob E

         

        RE: Hi Jon. 


        > RE: I will get into the next part about the Satipatthana sutta later, as I need to look at it to continue the discussion.


        > J:  Glad to hear you'll be checking out the text of the sutta for a change!! :-))


        RE:

        :-)  I appreciate what I desperately hope is your humor here, and if so, is very funny. 


        I will get back to you with the usual sutta quotes as soon as I can.  :-)


        Very very funny, Jon.   ; - /


        Best,

        Rob  E.


        - - - - - - - - - -


        J:  You may have forgotten in the confusion over the new format that you have already come back with a quote from the Satipatthana Sutta.  My reply to your message can be found here:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dhammastudygroup/conversations/messages/133161


        Jon

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