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Re: The Cycle of Birth and Death, no 1.

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  • Robert E
    Hi Sarah. ... This is very clear, and I understand that understanding cannot be transmitted. My only point - and it may be insignificant to some people
    Message 1 of 64 , Apr 10, 2013
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      Hi Sarah.

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "sarah" <sarahprocterabbott@...> wrote:
      > Hi Rob E,
      > --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Robert E" <epsteinrob@> wrote:
      > >...Listening to the Dhamma and wisely considering it are prerequisites for developing wisdom and for entering the path, so the way this takes place is very important. It just happens that the communication from those "wise cittas" to other cittas that may not know the path is the heart of how the Dhamma is transmitted.
      > >
      > > If anyone has more details on how this form of kamma patha takes place, I would be very interested.
      > ....
      > S: Nothing is actually 'transmitted' from one set of cittas to another. If someone has a good understanding of Dhamma and explains it to another, it will be the kusala kamma patha of the one who explains, bringing its own good results in due course.
      > For the person who listens (or rather the cittas referred to as this 'person'), it'll depend on accumulations as to whether there is any wise considering or understanding of what is heard or not. If there is understanding, it'll lead to more understanding. It is kusala kamma patha. If there is attachment or aversion and no understanding, then there will just be the accumulation of more attachment or aversion.
      > Even a Buddha could not make another understand if there weren't the right conditions in place - in particular the accumulations for this.
      > Metta
      > Sarah
      > p.s. let me know if this isn't clear....

      This is very clear, and I understand that understanding cannot be transmitted. My only point - and it may be insignificant to some people compared to understanding itself - is that those rupas that are produced as the result of the kamma patha of "explaining" or even just "reciting" the Dhamma, those rupas become the object of hearing for the person listening. That is how the "word" of the Dhamma gets to that person's hearing, so that they may then consider the words wisely or not.

      Sure, once the person hears the Dhamma, they may misunderstand it, understand it and discard it or wisely consider it. That is up to accumulations. But even *hearing* the Dhamma in the first place is dependent on those rupas that can be "heard object."

      It's very interesting to me that this physical reality must be present or the Dhamma cannot be heard and understood.

      Rob E.

      = = = = = = = = = =
    • Tep Sastri
      Hi Saraha, Brother Han - ... T: It was Brother Han, Sarah, not I, who inserted the Pali text. ... ...... T: Adhi-siila-sikkha is deveoped by Sekha puggalas on
      Message 64 of 64 , May 21, 2013
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        Hi Saraha, Brother Han -

        > Sarah:
        > Dear Tep & Tadao,
        > Thank you for sharing the sutta and inserting the Pali:

        T: It was Brother Han, Sarah, not I, who inserted the Pali text.

        > --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, han tun <hantun1@> wrote:
        > > Once again, my Good Brother Tep has brought up a very useful sutta.
        > > Saadhu! Saadhu! Saadhu!
        > > I inserted Paa.li text in support of his efforts.
        > >  
        > > AN 4.1 Anubuddha Sutta: Understanding
        > >  
        > <...>
        ... ...
        > > (1) "It's because of not understanding and not penetrating noble virtue that we have wandered and transmigrated on such a long, long time, you and I.
        > ...
        > S: This is just the point I was making. It is "noble" virtue that is being referred to. This is adhi-siila, (higher siila) that can only develop and become noble with the development of right understanding and associated path factors.
        > Without the development of satipatthana, it will never be noble virtue.

        T: Adhi-siila-sikkha is deveoped by Sekha puggalas on the Path (magga). I agree with you that noble Sila is developed along with lokuttara samma-ditthi and the path factors samma-vayama plus samma-sati [See MN 117].
        But what we discussed earlier in the DSG message #130782 (5/20/2013) is Patimokha siila and indriya-samvara:
        The slightest faults in the Vinaya must be understood by all good monks, new or experienced monks, otherwise they cannot succeed. But that "understanding" is at the puthujjana level before satipatthana and panna. The Pali text of this Sutta (Anguttara Nikaya, catukkanipata caravaggo, Siilasuttam found at the metta.lk Web site) shows that Sila here is Patimokha Rules that every monk must follow. Once he is "virtuous" --having passed the Patimokha tests-- satipatthana in the four body postures is the next thing right after "what further has he to do?".

        Be well,
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