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Re: [dsg] Re: The Cycle of Birth and Death, no 1.

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear Rob E, ... N: It can.t. Understanding develops, nobody else can do that for you. But one can help others with mettaa and karu.naa to begin developing
    Message 1 of 64 , Apr 7, 2013
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      Dear Rob E,
      Op 7-apr-2013, om 6:21 heeft Robert E het volgende geschreven:

      > Here we
      > > have another example. For some it may not have any meaning to hear:
      > > It is not you who understands.
      >
      > Thanks Nina. Is it possible to explain how understanding is
      > communicated through the spoken word?
      ------
      N: It can.t. Understanding develops, nobody else can do that for you.
      But one can help others with mettaa and karu.naa to begin developing
      understanding. Citta thinks of others with mettaa and karu.naa and
      kusala citta motivates speech. But, as I said, it depends on whether
      it is the right time for the other person to hear with appreciation
      what is said. The words may be a condition to consider more the truth
      of Dhamma. Or he may despise what he hjears, disapprove of it.
      Possible, it depends on conditions. Or he may change his mind later
      on, even after ten years, one never knows.
      Do you find this acceptable, or is there something else you want to
      know?
      Nina.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Tep Sastri
      Hi Saraha, Brother Han - ... T: It was Brother Han, Sarah, not I, who inserted the Pali text. ... ...... T: Adhi-siila-sikkha is deveoped by Sekha puggalas on
      Message 64 of 64 , May 21 5:25 AM
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        Hi Saraha, Brother Han -

        > Sarah:
        > Dear Tep & Tadao,
        >
        > Thank you for sharing the sutta and inserting the Pali:
        >

        T: It was Brother Han, Sarah, not I, who inserted the Pali text.

        > --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, han tun <hantun1@> wrote:
        >
        > > Once again, my Good Brother Tep has brought up a very useful sutta.
        > > Saadhu! Saadhu! Saadhu!
        > > I inserted Paa.li text in support of his efforts.
        > >  
        > > AN 4.1 Anubuddha Sutta: Understanding
        > >  
        > <...>
        ... ...
        > > (1) "It's because of not understanding and not penetrating noble virtue that we have wandered and transmigrated on such a long, long time, you and I.
        > ...
        > S: This is just the point I was making. It is "noble" virtue that is being referred to. This is adhi-siila, (higher siila) that can only develop and become noble with the development of right understanding and associated path factors.
        >
        > Without the development of satipatthana, it will never be noble virtue.
        >
        ......

        T: Adhi-siila-sikkha is deveoped by Sekha puggalas on the Path (magga). I agree with you that noble Sila is developed along with lokuttara samma-ditthi and the path factors samma-vayama plus samma-sati [See MN 117].
        But what we discussed earlier in the DSG message #130782 (5/20/2013) is Patimokha siila and indriya-samvara:
        The slightest faults in the Vinaya must be understood by all good monks, new or experienced monks, otherwise they cannot succeed. But that "understanding" is at the puthujjana level before satipatthana and panna. The Pali text of this Sutta (Anguttara Nikaya, catukkanipata caravaggo, Siilasuttam found at the metta.lk Web site) shows that Sila here is Patimokha Rules that every monk must follow. Once he is "virtuous" --having passed the Patimokha tests-- satipatthana in the four body postures is the next thing right after "what further has he to do?".

        Be well,
        Tep
        ===
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