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Re: Question about Mahayana.

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  • thomaslaw03
    Hi Lukas, - L: Yes, just useless viewpoint. I think the teachings of the middle way indicated in the Samyutta suttas (Samyukta sutras) are not useless at
    Message 1 of 158 , Mar 24, 2013
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      Hi Lukas,

      - "> L: Yes, just useless viewpoint."

      I think the teachings of the middle way indicated in the Samyutta suttas (Samyukta sutras) are not useless at all. They are in a practical sense, rather than on idealistic and systematic theory.

      - "> Here is a Kokanuda Sutta: On one occasion Ven. Ananda ..."

      This is the teachings of the middle way for working in a practice sense.

      Thomas

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Lukas" <szmicio@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Thomas,
      >
      > > I consider this: Everything exists, this is one extreme. Everything does not exist, this is the other extreme. Dhammas are empty of both existence and non-existence, which all come from self-attachment (Choong MK, The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism, pp. 60-66, 92-97, 192-199).
      >
      > L: Yes, just useless viewpoint.
      > Here is a Kokanuda Sutta:
      >
      > On one occasion Ven. Ananda was staying near Rajagaha, at Tapoda monastery. Then, as night was ending, he got up & went to the Tapoda Hot Springs to bathe his limbs. Having bathed his limbs and having gotten out of the springs, he stood wearing only his lower robe, drying his limbs. Kokanuda the wanderer, as night was ending, also got up & went to the Tapoda Hot Springs to bathe his limbs. He saw Ven. Ananda from afar, and on seeing him said to him, "Who are you, my friend?"
      >
      > "I am a monk, my friend."
      >
      > "Which kind of monk?"
      >
      > "A son-of-the-Sakyan contemplative."
      >
      > "I would like to ask you about a certain point, if you would give me leave to pose a question."
      >
      > "Go ahead and ask. Having heard [your question], I'll inform you."
      >
      > "How is it, my friend: 'The cosmos is eternal. Only this is true; anything otherwise is worthless.' Is this the sort of view you have?"
      >
      > "No, my friend, I don't have that sort of view."
      >
      > "Very well, then: 'The cosmos is not eternal. Only this is true; anything otherwise is worthless.' Is this the sort of view you have?"
      >
      > "No, my friend, I don't have that sort of view."
      >
      > "Very well, then: 'The cosmos is finite... The cosmos is infinite... The soul & the body are the same... The soul is one thing and the body another... After death a Tathagata exists... After death a Tathagata does not exist... After death a Tathagata both does & does not exist... After death a Tathagata neither does nor does not exist. Only this is true; anything otherwise is worthless.' Is this the sort of view you have?"
      >
      > "No, my friend, I don't have that sort of view."
      >
      > "Then in that case, do you not know or see?"
      >
      > "No, my friend. It's not the case that I don't know, I don't see. I do know. I do see."
      >
      > "But on being asked, 'How is it, my friend: "The cosmos is eternal. Only this is true; anything otherwise is worthless." Is this the sort of view you have?' you inform me, 'No, my friend, I don't have that sort of view.' On being asked, 'Very well then: "The cosmos is not eternal... The cosmos is finite... The cosmos is infinite... The soul & the body are the same... The soul is one thing and the body another... After death a Tathagata exists... After death a Tathagata does not exist... After death a Tathagata both does & does not exist... After death a Tathagata neither does nor does not exist. Only this is true; anything otherwise is worthless." Is this the sort of view you have?' you inform me, 'No, my friend, I don't have that sort of view.' But on being asked, 'Then in that case, do you not know or see?' you inform me, 'No, my friend. It's not the case that I don't know or see. I do know. I do see.' Now, how is the meaning of this statement to be understood?"
      >
      > "'The cosmos is eternal. Only this is true; anything otherwise is worthless,' is a viewpoint. 'The cosmos is not eternal... The cosmos is finite... The cosmos is infinite... The soul & the body are the same... The soul is one thing and the body another... After death a Tathagata exists... After death a Tathagata does not exist... After death a Tathagata both does & does not exist... After death a Tathagata neither does nor does not exist. Only this is true; anything otherwise is worthless,' is a viewpoint. The extent to which there are viewpoints, view-stances, the taking up of views, obsessions of views, the cause of views, & the uprooting of views: that's what I know. That's what I see. Knowing that, I say 'I know.' Seeing that, I say 'I see.' Why should I say 'I don't know, I don't see'? I do know. I do see."
      >
      > "What is your name, my friend? What do your fellows in the chaste life call you?"
      >
      > "My name is Ananda, my friend, and that's what my fellows in the chaste life call me."
      >
      > "What? Have I been talking with the great teacher without realizing that it was Ven. Ananda? Had I recognized that it was Ven. Ananda, I would not have cross-examined him so much. May Ven. Ananda please forgive me."
      >
      >
      > Best wishes
      > Lukas
      >
    • Robert E
      Hi Sarah. ... I continue to think this is a very zen approach to Dhamma - I think if you called it zen you d probably convert a bunch of Mahayanists, as it
      Message 158 of 158 , Apr 27, 2013
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        Hi Sarah.

        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "sarah" <sarahprocterabbott@...> wrote:

        > S: Better to just talk about realities, paramattha dhammas that can be understood now. I think this is more productive than discussions about formal meditation.
        >
        > This morning at breakfast, another swimmer started asking me about retreats and meditation because of stress issues. I just started talking about 'now', about seeing now, hearing now, 'meditation' now, even in the noisy cafe. Otherwise, there's always a thinking about another time, another place, never any understanding or awareness now. She appreciated it!

        I continue to think this is a very "zen" approach to Dhamma - I think if you called it "zen" you'd probably convert a bunch of Mahayanists, as it is very appealing, and I agree really is the heart of becoming aware, which can only happen at this moment now.

        A favorite quote of mine is sort of analogous in its simplicity, from the avant-garde saxaphonist/bass clarinetist Eric Dolphy, now deceased: "Music, after it's over, it's gone in the air - you can never capture it again."

        Best,
        Rob E.

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