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Correction Re: [dsg] Re: 84,000 Dhamma-khandha

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  • connie
    dear Han and Nina, Abhidhamme ekameka.m tikadukabhaajana.m ekameka~nca cittavaarabhaajana.m eko dhammakkhandho. ... peace, connie Eva.m
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 9, 2013
      dear Han and Nina,


      Abhidhamme ekameka.m tikadukabhaajana.m ekameka~nca cittavaarabhaajana.m eko dhammakkhandho.


      > Introductory Discourse in the Expositor (Atthasaalinii) by Venerable Buddhaghosa.
      >
      > Page 34:
      > snip .....
      >
      > In the Abhidhamma each trinal or dual classification, as well as each classification of conscious intervals, form one unit of text.
      >
      > ----------


      peace,
      connie



      Eva.m paridiipitadhammakkhandhavasena caturaasiitisahassappabheda.m hoti. Tattha ekaanusandhika.m sutta.m eko dhammakkhandho. Ya.m anekaanusandhika.m tattha anusandhivasena dhammakkhandhaga.nanaa. Gaathaabandhesu pa~nhaapucchana.m eko dhammakkhandho, vissajjana.m eko. **Abhidhamme ekameka.m tikadukabhaajana.m ekameka~nca cittavaarabhaajana.m eko dhammakkhandho.** Vinaye atthi vatthu, atthi maatikaa, atthi padabhaajaniiya.m, atthi aapatti, atthi anaapatti, atthi antaraapatti, atthi tikacchedo. Tattha ekameko ko.t.thaaso ekameko dhammakkhandhoti veditabbo. Eva.m dhammakkhandhato caturaasiiti dhammakkhandhasahassaani.
    • sarah
      Dear Han, Glad to see you writing here. ... .... S: The same details are also given in the commentary to the Vinaya. The account of the First Council in the
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 10, 2013
        Dear Han,

        Glad to see you writing here.

        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, han tun <hantun1@...> wrote:

        > Han: In the above passage, I do not understand the meaning
        > of "as well as each classification of conscious intervals." Do you
        > know what does it mean?
        ....
        S: The same details are also given in the commentary to the Vinaya. The account of the First Council in the Bahiranidana and Atthasalini explains how the 84,000 units of dhamma are comprised and these include the Abhidhamma units. Below we read about what exactly is included in the 84,000 units.

        Baahiranidaana (Buddhaghosa's intro to the Commentary to the Vinaya).

        It is from the section on The First Council,
        (Jayawickrama's transl).
        =========================================

        Extracts from section 16 (p.14) onwards:

        'The word of the Buddha which should be known as uniform in
        sentiment,twofold as the Dhamma and the Vinaya, threefold according to the
        first,intermediate, and last words, and similarly as Pitakas (Baskets),
        fivefold according to the Nikayas (Collections), ninefold according to the
        Angas(Factors), and forming 84,000 divisions according to the Units of the
        Dhamma."
        ......

        "How is it twofold as the dhamma and the vinaya? All this, in its
        entirety, is reckoned as the Dhamma and the Vinaya. Herein the Basket of
        the Discipline is the Vinaya, the rest of the word of the Buddha is the
        Dhamma. Hence was it stated: 'Let us, friends, rehearse the Dhamma and
        the Vinaya,' and 'I shall question Upali on the Vinaya and Ananda on the
        dhamma.' Thus it is twofold as the Dhamma and the Vinaya."
        .....

        A little later we read <section 20 (18):

        "How is it threefold according to the Pitakas? Indeed, all this, in its
        entirety, has the three divisions as the Vinaya-pitaka, the
        suttantapitaka, and the Abhidhammapitaka. Therein, having brought
        together all that has been both rehearsed and not at the First
        convocation, both Patimokkha, the two Vibhanga, the 22 Khandhaka, and the
        16 Parivara, it is called the Vinayapitaka.

        "The collection of the 34 suttas beginning with Brahmajala called the
        Dighanikaya, that of 152 suttas beginning with Mulapariyaya called the
        Majjhimanikaya, that of 7,762 suttas beginning with Oghataranasutta called
        the Samyuttanikaya, that of 9,557 suttas beginning with the
        Cittapariyadanasutta, called the Anguttaranikaya, and the Khuddakanikaya
        consisting of the 15 works:
        Khuddakapatha, Dhammapada, Udana, Itivuttaka, Suttanipata, Vimanavatthu,
        Petavatthu, Thera and Therigatha, Jataka, Niddesa,Patisambhida,Apadana,
        Buddhavamsa, and Cariyapitaka, are called Suttantapitaka.
        Dhammasangani, Vibhanga, dhatukatha, Puggalapannatti, Kathavattu,
        Yamaka,and Patthana constitute the Abhidhammapitaka."
        .....

        S: We can see how much is included in the 84,000 units.

        Metta

        Sarah
        =====
      • Nina van Gorkom
        Dear Han and Connie, Thank you for the Pali. Citta vaara: a round of cittas, a process of cittas. Cittas that experience objects through the six doorways arise
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 10, 2013
          Dear Han and Connie,
          Thank you for the Pali.
          Citta vaara: a round of cittas, a process of cittas. Cittas that
          experience objects through the six doorways arise in a process,
          vaara, as you know.
          Nina.
          Op 9-mrt-2013, om 18:17 heeft connie het volgende geschreven:

          > Abhidhamme ekameka.m tikadukabhaajana.m ekameka~nca
          > cittavaarabhaajana.m eko dhammakkhandho.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • han tun
          Dear Nina,   Thank you very much.   with metta and respect, Han ________________________________ From: Nina van Gorkom To:
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 10, 2013
            Dear Nina,
             
            Thank you very much.
             
            with metta and respect,
            Han


            ________________________________
            From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
            To: dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 3:39 PM
            Subject: Re: Correction Re: [dsg] Re: 84,000 Dhamma-khandha

             

            Dear Han and Connie,
            Thank you for the Pali.
            Citta vaara: a round of cittas, a process of cittas. Cittas that
            experience objects through the six doorways arise in a process,
            vaara, as you know.
            Nina.
            Op 9-mrt-2013, om 18:17 heeft connie het volgende geschreven:

            > Abhidhamme ekameka.m tikadukabhaajana.m ekameka~nca
            > cittavaarabhaajana.m eko dhammakkhandho.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • han tun
            Dear Sarah,   Thank you very much.   with metta and respect, Han   ________________________________ From: sarah To:
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 10, 2013
              Dear Sarah,
               
              Thank you very much.
               
              with metta and respect,
              Han
               

              ________________________________
              From: sarah <sarahprocterabbott@...>
              To: dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 3:04 PM
              Subject: [dsg] Re: 84,000 Dhamma-khandha

               

              Dear Han,

              Glad to see you writing here.

              --- In mailto:dhammastudygroup%40yahoogroups.com, han tun <hantun1@...> wrote:

              > Han: In the above passage, I do not understand the meaning
              > of "as well as each classification of conscious intervals." Do you
              > know what does it mean?
              ....
              S: The same details are also given in the commentary to the Vinaya. The account of the First Council in the Bahiranidana and Atthasalini explains how the 84,000 units of dhamma are comprised and these include the Abhidhamma units. Below we read about what exactly is included in the 84,000 units.

              Baahiranidaana (Buddhaghosa's intro to the Commentary to the Vinaya).

              It is from the section on The First Council,
              (Jayawickrama's transl).
              =========================================

              Extracts from section 16 (p.14) onwards:

              'The word of the Buddha which should be known as uniform in
              sentiment,twofold as the Dhamma and the Vinaya, threefold according to the
              first,intermediate, and last words, and similarly as Pitakas (Baskets),
              fivefold according to the Nikayas (Collections), ninefold according to the
              Angas(Factors), and forming 84,000 divisions according to the Units of the
              Dhamma."
              ......

              "How is it twofold as the dhamma and the vinaya? All this, in its
              entirety, is reckoned as the Dhamma and the Vinaya. Herein the Basket of
              the Discipline is the Vinaya, the rest of the word of the Buddha is the
              Dhamma. Hence was it stated: 'Let us, friends, rehearse the Dhamma and
              the Vinaya,' and 'I shall question Upali on the Vinaya and Ananda on the
              dhamma.' Thus it is twofold as the Dhamma and the Vinaya."
              .....

              A little later we read <section 20 (18):

              "How is it threefold according to the Pitakas? Indeed, all this, in its
              entirety, has the three divisions as the Vinaya-pitaka, the
              suttantapitaka, and the Abhidhammapitaka. Therein, having brought
              together all that has been both rehearsed and not at the First
              convocation, both Patimokkha, the two Vibhanga, the 22 Khandhaka, and the
              16 Parivara, it is called the Vinayapitaka.

              "The collection of the 34 suttas beginning with Brahmajala called the
              Dighanikaya, that of 152 suttas beginning with Mulapariyaya called the
              Majjhimanikaya, that of 7,762 suttas beginning with Oghataranasutta called
              the Samyuttanikaya, that of 9,557 suttas beginning with the
              Cittapariyadanasutta, called the Anguttaranikaya, and the Khuddakanikaya
              consisting of the 15 works:
              Khuddakapatha, Dhammapada, Udana, Itivuttaka, Suttanipata, Vimanavatthu,
              Petavatthu, Thera and Therigatha, Jataka, Niddesa,Patisambhida,Apadana,
              Buddhavamsa, and Cariyapitaka, are called Suttantapitaka.
              Dhammasangani, Vibhanga, dhatukatha, Puggalapannatti, Kathavattu,
              Yamaka,and Patthana constitute the Abhidhammapitaka."
              .....

              S: We can see how much is included in the 84,000 units.

              Metta

              Sarah
              =====




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • jonoabb
              Hi Nina ... J: Thanks for providing a precise answer and a textual source. In the same passage I notice a reference to the eighty-four thousand Khandhas ,
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 11, 2013
                Hi Nina

                --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Han and Jon,
                > Introductory Discourse in the Expositor, p. 34:
                > "Which are the eighty-four thousand units of text?
                > Eighty-two thousand from the Blessed One
                > Two thousand from the bhikkhu Saariputta-
                > Eighty-four thousand dhammas have I learned."
                > Then it is all analysed.
                > These were rehearsed at the first council.
                > Nina.
                > ===============

                J: Thanks for providing a precise answer and a textual source.

                In the same passage I notice a reference to the eighty-four thousand 'Khandhas', which I assume to be the same as 'units of text'.

                It is said that these constitute the Buddha's 'middle sayings', i.e., the teaching given between his first words spoken as the Buddha and his last words as recorded in the Mahaparinibbana Sutta.

                Jon
              • Lukas
                Dear Jon, ... L: I think khandhas has many meanings depending on context. The explanation by mean of words were given in Samohavinodhani(Dispeller of
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 11, 2013
                  Dear Jon,

                  > In the same passage I notice a reference to the eighty-four thousand 'Khandhas', which I assume to be the same as 'units of text'.

                  L: I think khandhas has many meanings depending on context. The explanation by mean of words were given in Samohavinodhani(Dispeller of delusion). And it may be: a group or instance or a pice I think. Or parts.

                  Best wishes
                  Lukas
                • jonoabb
                  Hi Lukas ... J: Thanks for these comments. I m familiar with the meaning of group , which sort of fits the context (group of words forming a unit of the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 11, 2013
                    Hi Lukas

                    --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Lukas" <szmicio@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear Jon,
                    >
                    > > In the same passage I notice a reference to the eighty-four thousand 'Khandhas', which I assume to be the same as 'units of text'.
                    >
                    > L: I think khandhas has many meanings depending on context. The explanation by mean of words were given in Samohavinodhani(Dispeller of delusion). And it may be: a group or instance or a pice I think. Or parts.
                    > ===============

                    J: Thanks for these comments. I'm familiar with the meaning of 'group', which sort of fits the context (group of words forming a unit of the teaching).

                    For some reason, the translation treats 'Khandha' here as a proper noun (similar to the name of a person or place).

                    Jon

                    > Best wishes
                    > Lukas
                    >
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