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84,000 Dhamma-khandha

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  • han tun
    Dear Friends,   I have heard about 84,000 Dhamma-khandha. But I do not know how it is calculated. Then I come across a book, King Asoka and Buddhism.
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 7, 2013
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      Dear Friends,
       
      I have heard about 84,000 Dhamma-khandha. But I do not know how
      it is calculated. Then I come across a book, King Asoka and Buddhism.
      http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/king_asoka.pdf
       
      In Chapter 6 Images of Asoka, there is an interesting
      account which stated that 84,000 is the *symbolic* representation of the Buddha's dhammakaaya, the corpus of his Teaching, or the
      84,000 atoms that traditionally were thought to make up a human body, and thus
      representing the Buddha's ruupakaaya, his
      physical form.
       
      ----------------------
       
      4. The 84,000 Stuupas or Vihaaras
       
      Despite this failure to gather all the relics of the Buddha,
      Asoka proceeds, at least in the Asokaavadaana, to redistribute and re-enshrine those
      that he has collected into 84,000 stuupas which he has built throughout the
      whole of Jambudiipa. This was to become Asoka's
      most famous legendary act, and, for centuries, pilgrims visiting the holy sites
      of India habitually ascribed almost every ancient stuupa they came across to Asoka.
      The Asokaavadaana version of the episode is as follows:
       
      [Then Assoka had eighty-four thousand boxes made of gold,
      silver, cat's eye, and crystal, and in them
      were placed the relics. Also eighty-four thousand urns and eighty-four thousand
      inscription plates were prepared. All of this was given to the yakṣas for
      distribution in the eighty-four thousand stuupas he ordered built throughout
      the earth as far as the surrounding ocean, in the small, great, and
      middle-sized towns, wherever there was a population of one hundred thousand
      persons. Asoka then went to the Kukkuṭaaraama Monastery and spoke to the Elder
      Yasas: "This is my wish; I would like to
      complete the building of all eightyfour thousand stūpas on the same day, at the
      same time."
       
      "Very well," replied the Elder, "when
      the moment comes, I shall signal it by hiding the orb of the sun with my hand." Then, not long thereafter, he eclipsed the
      sun with his hand, and all at once the eighty-four thousand stuupas were completed.]
       
      This relation corresponds to the similar account, in the Mahaava.msa,
      of Asoka's construction of 84,000 monasteries
      (vihaaras):
       
      [When he heard: "There
      are eighty-four thousand sections of the Dhamma," the king said: "Each one of them I will
      honour with a vihaara." Then, bestowing
      ninety-six koṭis of money in eightyfour thousand towns, the ruler bade the
      kings all over the earth to begin to build vihaaras, and he himself began to
      build the Asokaaraama.
       
      All those beautiful vihaaras then begun they duly finished
      in all the cities within three years; and, by the miraculous power of the Thera
      Indagutta, who watched over the work, the aaraama named after Asoka was
      likewise quickly brought to completion. On every side, from the eighty-four
      thousand cities came letters on one day with the news: "The
      vihaaras are completed."]
       
      There are numerous parallels between these two versions of the
      story. For example, in both texts, all the stuupas (vihaaras) are completed on
      the same day, and this completion then signals the occasion for a great
      festival of merit-making. Moreover, both construction projects are supervised
      by a monk with magical powers (Indagutta in the Pali tradition, Yasas in the
      Sanskrit). Both are symbolic of the spread and establishment of Buddhism
      throughout Asoka's empire, and both mark an
      official change in Asoka's status: up until
      this time, he had been known as Ca.n.daasoka; thenceforth he is to be known as Dharmaasoka.
       
      But there are some noteworthy differences between these two
      accounts as well, and these are worth exploring here. First, and not be
      minimized, is the difference between stuupas and vihaaras. In the Asokaavadaana,
      Asoka's concern is with honouring the remains
      of the Buddha's physical body, his relics, andthe construction of commemorative markers (stuupas)
      over those. In the Mahaava.msa, no mention is made of the relics in this
      context. Instead, Asoka seeks to honour the Sangha by building not stuupas but
      monasteries (vihaaras) for monks.
       
      Secondly, related to this are the different accounts of what
      inspires Asoka to build eighty-four thousand stuupas or vihaaras.
       
      The number 84,000 is, of course, symbolic of totality in the
      Buddhist tradition, but its specific connotations here should not be overlooked.
      In the Mahaava.msa, we are told that Asoka decides to undertake the vihaara
      construction project when he learns from Moggaliputta Tissa that there are
      84,000 sections of the Buddha's Dhamma, his
      Teaching. The vihaaras are thus not just for the Sangha, but also symbolic of
      the Dhamma; they represent, so to speak, the Buddha's
      dhammakaya, the corpus of his Teaching. The 84,000 stuupas, on the other hand,
      do not directly symbolize the Dharma but are commemorative of the 84,000 atoms
      that traditionally were thought to make up a human body. They represent,
      therefore, the Buddha's ruupakaaya, his
      physical form.
       
      ----------------------
       
      Han: However, you may have a different opinion about the
      84,000 Dhamma-khandha and how it is calculated. If you have, kindly share it
      with me.
       
      Thank you very much.
       
      with metta and respect,
      Han

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • jonoabb
      Hi Han ... J: I understood it to refer to the number of sentences (or the Pali equivalent) in the Tipitaka. But I can t now remember where I got that idea
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 7, 2013
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        Hi Han

        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, han tun <hantun1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Friends,
        >  
        > I have heard about 84,000 Dhamma-khandha. But I do not know how
        > it is calculated. Then I come across a book, King Asoka and Buddhism.
        > http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/king_asoka.pdf
        >  
        > In Chapter 6 Images of Asoka, there is an interesting
        > account which stated that 84,000 is the *symbolic* representation of the Buddha's dhammakaaya, the corpus of his Teaching, or the
        > 84,000 atoms that traditionally were thought to make up a human body, and thus
        > representing the Buddha's ruupakaaya, his
        > physical form.
        > ===============

        J: I understood it to refer to the number of 'sentences' (or the Pali equivalent) in the Tipitaka. But I can't now remember where I got that idea from. Is this number mentioned in the list of different kinds of teaching (verses, prose, etc)?

        Jon
      • han tun
        Dear Jon,   Thank you very much for your response.  J: I understood it to refer to the number of sentences (or the Pali equivalent) in the Tipitaka. But
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 8, 2013
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          Dear Jon,
           
          Thank you very much for your response.
           J: I understood it to refer to the number of 'sentences' (or the Pali equivalent) in the Tipitaka. But I can't now remember where I got that idea from. Is this number mentioned in the list of different kinds of teaching (verses, prose, etc)?

          Han: I do not think it refers to the number of sentences.
          But I do not know.
           
          No, it is not mentioned in the list of different kinds of teaching
          (1) Sutta (2) Geyya (3) Veyyakarana (4) Gatha (5) Udana (6) Itivuttaka (7) Jataka (8) Abbhutadhamma(9) Vedalla. 
          But one source says that adhammakhandha is an item of dhamma,
          which could be a sutta, a question or an explanation. [Han: which is very vague.]
          with metta and respect,
          Han

          ________________________________
          From: jonoabb <jonabbott@...>
          To: dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 2:21 PM
          Subject: [dsg] Re: 84,000 Dhamma-khandha

           

          Hi Han

          --- In mailto:dhammastudygroup%40yahoogroups.com, han tun <hantun1@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Friends,
          >  
          > I have heard about 84,000 Dhamma-khandha. But I do not know how
          > it is calculated. Then I come across a book, King Asoka and Buddhism.
          > http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/king_asoka.pdf
          >  
          > In Chapter 6 Images of Asoka, there is an interesting
          > account which stated that 84,000 is the *symbolic* representation of the Buddha's dhammakaaya, the corpus of his Teaching, or the
          > 84,000 atoms that traditionally were thought to make up a human body, and thus
          > representing the Buddha's ruupakaaya, his
          > physical form.
          > ===============

          J: I understood it to refer to the number of 'sentences' (or the Pali equivalent) in the Tipitaka. But I can't now remember where I got that idea from. Is this number mentioned in the list of different kinds of teaching (verses, prose, etc)?

          Jon




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • han tun
          Dear Jon,   I want to correct my last reply to you.   Jon: I understood it to refer to the number of sentences (or the Pali equivalent) in the Tipitaka.
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 8, 2013
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            Dear Jon,
             
            I want to correct my last reply to you.
             
            Jon: I understood it to refer to the number of 'sentences'
            (or the Pali equivalent) in the Tipitaka. But I can't now remember where I got
            that idea from. Is this number mentioned in the list of different kinds of
            teaching (verses, prose, etc)?
             
            Han: I do not think it refers to the number of sentences.
            But I do not know.
            Well, it must be the sum total of the different kinds of
            teaching: (1) Sutta (2) Geyya (3) Veyyakarana (4) Gatha (5) Udana (6)
            Itivuttaka (7) Jataka (8) Abbhutadhamma (9) Vedalla.
            But how will you count them to get 84,000?
             
            One source says that a dhammakhandha is an item of dhamma,
            which could be a sutta, a question or an explanation. [Han: which is very
            vague.]
             
            That was why before I can find a concrete evidence of the calculation
            to get 84,000, I would prefer to take the figure as just the *symbolic*
            representation [not acttual counting] of the Buddha's
            dhammakaaya, and/or the Buddha's ruupakaaya,
            as mentioned in the book which I have referred to.
             
            with metta and respect,
            Han



            ________________________________
            From: jonoabb <jonabbott@...>
            To: dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 2:21 PM
            Subject: [dsg] Re: 84,000 Dhamma-khandha

             

            Hi Han

            --- In mailto:dhammastudygroup%40yahoogroups.com, han tun <hantun1@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Friends,
            >  
            > I have heard about 84,000 Dhamma-khandha. But I do not know how
            > it is calculated. Then I come across a book, King Asoka and Buddhism.
            > http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/king_asoka.pdf
            >  
            > In Chapter 6 Images of Asoka, there is an interesting
            > account which stated that 84,000 is the *symbolic* representation of the Buddha's dhammakaaya, the corpus of his Teaching, or the
            > 84,000 atoms that traditionally were thought to make up a human body, and thus
            > representing the Buddha's ruupakaaya, his
            > physical form.
            > ===============

            J: I understood it to refer to the number of 'sentences' (or the Pali equivalent) in the Tipitaka. But I can't now remember where I got that idea from. Is this number mentioned in the list of different kinds of teaching (verses, prose, etc)?

            Jon




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Nina van Gorkom
            Dear Han and Jon, Introductory Discourse in the Expositor, p. 34: Which are the eighty-four thousand units of text? Eighty-two thousand from the Blessed One
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 8, 2013
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              Dear Han and Jon,
              Introductory Discourse in the Expositor, p. 34:
              "Which are the eighty-four thousand units of text?
              Eighty-two thousand from the Blessed One
              Two thousand from the bhikkhu Saariputta-
              Eighty-four thousand dhammas have I learned."
              Then it is all analysed.
              These were rehearsed at the first council.
              Nina.

              Op 8-mrt-2013, om 10:50 heeft han tun het volgende geschreven:

              > Han: I do not think it refers to the number of sentences.
              > But I do not know.
              > Well, it must be the sum total of the different kinds of
              > teaching: (1) Sutta (2) Geyya (3) Veyyakarana (4) Gatha (5) Udana (6)
              > Itivuttaka (7) Jataka (8) Abbhutadhamma (9) Vedalla.
              > But how will you count them to get 84,000?



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • han tun
              Dear Nina (and Jon),   Nina:  Introductory Discourse in the Expositor, p. 34:   Which are the eighty-four thousand units of text?  Eighty-two thousand from
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 8, 2013
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                Dear Nina (and Jon),
                 
                Nina:  Introductory
                Discourse in the Expositor, p. 34:
                 "Which are the
                eighty-four thousand units of text?
                 Eighty-two thousand
                from the Blessed One
                Two thousand from the bhikkhu Saariputta-
                Eighty-four
                thousand dhammas have I learned."
                 Then it is all
                analysed. These were rehearsed at the first council.
                 
                ---------------
                 
                Han: Thank you very much for your clarification.
                Yes, I now read the Introductory Discourse in the Expositor
                (Atthasaalinii) by Venerable Buddhaghosa.
                 
                Page 34:
                "Which are the eighty-four thousand units of text?
                Eighty-two thousand from the Blessed One,
                Two thousand from the bhikkhu Saariputta,
                Eighty-four thousand dhammas have I learned." [Note 1]
                 
                [Note 1] Verse spoken by Aananda to Gopaka Moggallaana . Cf.
                Majjhima iii 7f.
                 
                Thus the whole of the Buddha’s word is composed of
                eighty-four thousand units of text. Of these, the Sutta containing one theme
                [Note 2] forms one unit of text.
                 
                [Note 2] Anusandhika. Anusandhi is a logical sequence of
                subjects.
                 
                Where a Sutta contains more than one theme, its units of
                texts are determined by the number of such themes. In verses each query or
                question asked forms a unit, and each answer forms another. In the Abhidhamma
                each trinal or dual classification, as well as each classification of conscious
                intervals, form one unit of text. In the Vinaya there are subjects, tables of
                contents, classification of terms, offence, innocence, interim offence, and
                division into triplets, wherein each portion should be understood as a unit of
                text. Such is the division of the Doctrine into eighty-four thousand units of
                text.
                 
                ---------------
                 
                Han: In the above passage, I do not understand the meaning
                of "as well as each classification of conscious intervals." Do you
                know what does it mean?
                 
                Thank you very much.
                 
                with metta and respect,
                Han
                 

                ________________________________
                From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
                To: dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 9:25 PM
                Subject: Re: Correction Re: [dsg] Re: 84,000 Dhamma-khandha
                 

                 

                Dear Han and Jon,
                Introductory Discourse in the Expositor, p. 34:
                "Which are the eighty-four thousand units of text?
                Eighty-two thousand from the Blessed One
                Two thousand from the bhikkhu Saariputta-
                Eighty-four thousand dhammas have I learned."
                Then it is all analysed.
                These were rehearsed at the first council.
                Nina.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nina van Gorkom
                Dear Han and Connie, ... N: We have to see the Pali, because of this translation. Perhaps Connie can trace the Pali from DPR. ... Nina. [Non-text portions of
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 9, 2013
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                  Dear Han and Connie,

                  Op 8-mrt-2013, om 22:57 heeft han tun het volgende geschreven:

                  > Han: In the above passage, I do not understand the meaning
                  > of "as well as each classification of conscious intervals." Do you
                  > know what does it mean?
                  ------
                  N: We have to see the Pali, because of this translation. Perhaps
                  Connie can trace the Pali from DPR.
                  ----
                  Nina.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • han tun
                  Dear Nina,   I have found the Paa.li text.   ...   Which are the eighty-four thousand units of text?   Katha.m dhammakkhandhato caturaasiiti
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 9, 2013
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                    Dear Nina,
                     
                    I have found the Paa.li text.
                     
                    ---------------
                     
                    Which are the eighty-four thousand units of text?
                     
                    Katha.m dhammakkhandhato
                    caturaasiiti dhammakkhandhasahassaaniiti? Sabbameva hida.m buddhavacana.m.
                     
                    --------------------
                     
                    Eighty-two thousand from the Blessed One,
                    Two thousand from the bhikkhu Saariputta,
                    Eighty-four thousand dhammas have I learned.
                     
                    Dvaasiiti  buddhato ga.nhi.m, dve sahassaani bhikkhuto;
                    Caturaasiiti sahassaani, ye me
                    dhammaa pavattino ti. (theragaa. 1027);
                     
                    --------------------
                     
                    Thus the whole of the Buddha's
                    word is composed of eighty-four thousand units of text. Of these, the Sutta
                    containing one theme forms one unit of text. Where a Sutta contains more than
                    one theme, its units of texts are determined by the number of such themes.
                     
                    Eva.m
                    paridiipitadhammakkhandhavasena caturaasiitisahassappabheda.m hoti. Tattha
                    ekaanusandhika.m sutta.m eko dhammakkhandho. Ya.m anekaanusandhika.m tattha
                    anusandhivasena dhammakkhandhaga.nanaa.
                     
                    ---------------
                     
                    In verses each query or question asked forms a unit, and
                    each answer forms another.
                     
                    Gaathaabandhesu pa~nhaapucchana.m
                    eko dhammakkhandho, vissajjana.m eko.
                     
                    ---------------
                     
                    In the Abhidhamma each trinal or dual classification, as
                    well as each classification of conscious intervals, form one unit of text. In
                    the
                     
                    Abhidhamme ekameka.m
                    tikadukabhaajana.m ekameka~nca cittavaarabhaajana.m eko dhammakkhandho.
                     
                    ---------------
                     
                    Vinaya there are subjects, tables of contents,
                    classification of terms, offence, innocence, interim offence, and division into
                    triplets, wherein each portion should be understood as a unit of text. Such is
                    the division of the Doctrine into eighty-four thousand units of text.
                     
                    Vinaye atthi vatthu, atthi maatikaa,
                    atthi padabhaajaniiya.m, atthi aapatti, atthi anaapatti, atthi  antaraapatti, atthi tikacchedo. Tattha
                    ekameko ko.t.thaaso ekameko dhammakkhandhoti veditabbo. Eva.m dhammakkhandhato
                    caturaasiiti dhammakkhandhasahassaani.
                     
                    ---------------
                     
                    with metta and respect,
                    Han



                    ________________________________
                    From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
                    To: dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 9:30 PM
                    Subject: Re: Correction Re: [dsg] Re: 84,000 Dhamma-khandha

                     

                    Dear Han and Connie,

                    Op 8-mrt-2013, om 22:57 heeft han tun het volgende geschreven:

                    > Han: In the above passage, I do not understand the meaning
                    > of "as well as each classification of conscious intervals." Do you
                    > know what does it mean?
                    ------
                    N: We have to see the Pali, because of this translation. Perhaps
                    Connie can trace the Pali from DPR.
                    ----
                    Nina.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • connie
                    dear Han and Nina, Abhidhamme ekameka.m tikadukabhaajana.m ekameka~nca cittavaarabhaajana.m eko dhammakkhandho. ... peace, connie Eva.m
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 9, 2013
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                      dear Han and Nina,


                      Abhidhamme ekameka.m tikadukabhaajana.m ekameka~nca cittavaarabhaajana.m eko dhammakkhandho.


                      > Introductory Discourse in the Expositor (Atthasaalinii) by Venerable Buddhaghosa.
                      >
                      > Page 34:
                      > snip .....
                      >
                      > In the Abhidhamma each trinal or dual classification, as well as each classification of conscious intervals, form one unit of text.
                      >
                      > ----------


                      peace,
                      connie



                      Eva.m paridiipitadhammakkhandhavasena caturaasiitisahassappabheda.m hoti. Tattha ekaanusandhika.m sutta.m eko dhammakkhandho. Ya.m anekaanusandhika.m tattha anusandhivasena dhammakkhandhaga.nanaa. Gaathaabandhesu pa~nhaapucchana.m eko dhammakkhandho, vissajjana.m eko. **Abhidhamme ekameka.m tikadukabhaajana.m ekameka~nca cittavaarabhaajana.m eko dhammakkhandho.** Vinaye atthi vatthu, atthi maatikaa, atthi padabhaajaniiya.m, atthi aapatti, atthi anaapatti, atthi antaraapatti, atthi tikacchedo. Tattha ekameko ko.t.thaaso ekameko dhammakkhandhoti veditabbo. Eva.m dhammakkhandhato caturaasiiti dhammakkhandhasahassaani.
                    • sarah
                      Dear Han, Glad to see you writing here. ... .... S: The same details are also given in the commentary to the Vinaya. The account of the First Council in the
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 10, 2013
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                        Dear Han,

                        Glad to see you writing here.

                        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, han tun <hantun1@...> wrote:

                        > Han: In the above passage, I do not understand the meaning
                        > of "as well as each classification of conscious intervals." Do you
                        > know what does it mean?
                        ....
                        S: The same details are also given in the commentary to the Vinaya. The account of the First Council in the Bahiranidana and Atthasalini explains how the 84,000 units of dhamma are comprised and these include the Abhidhamma units. Below we read about what exactly is included in the 84,000 units.

                        Baahiranidaana (Buddhaghosa's intro to the Commentary to the Vinaya).

                        It is from the section on The First Council,
                        (Jayawickrama's transl).
                        =========================================

                        Extracts from section 16 (p.14) onwards:

                        'The word of the Buddha which should be known as uniform in
                        sentiment,twofold as the Dhamma and the Vinaya, threefold according to the
                        first,intermediate, and last words, and similarly as Pitakas (Baskets),
                        fivefold according to the Nikayas (Collections), ninefold according to the
                        Angas(Factors), and forming 84,000 divisions according to the Units of the
                        Dhamma."
                        ......

                        "How is it twofold as the dhamma and the vinaya? All this, in its
                        entirety, is reckoned as the Dhamma and the Vinaya. Herein the Basket of
                        the Discipline is the Vinaya, the rest of the word of the Buddha is the
                        Dhamma. Hence was it stated: 'Let us, friends, rehearse the Dhamma and
                        the Vinaya,' and 'I shall question Upali on the Vinaya and Ananda on the
                        dhamma.' Thus it is twofold as the Dhamma and the Vinaya."
                        .....

                        A little later we read <section 20 (18):

                        "How is it threefold according to the Pitakas? Indeed, all this, in its
                        entirety, has the three divisions as the Vinaya-pitaka, the
                        suttantapitaka, and the Abhidhammapitaka. Therein, having brought
                        together all that has been both rehearsed and not at the First
                        convocation, both Patimokkha, the two Vibhanga, the 22 Khandhaka, and the
                        16 Parivara, it is called the Vinayapitaka.

                        "The collection of the 34 suttas beginning with Brahmajala called the
                        Dighanikaya, that of 152 suttas beginning with Mulapariyaya called the
                        Majjhimanikaya, that of 7,762 suttas beginning with Oghataranasutta called
                        the Samyuttanikaya, that of 9,557 suttas beginning with the
                        Cittapariyadanasutta, called the Anguttaranikaya, and the Khuddakanikaya
                        consisting of the 15 works:
                        Khuddakapatha, Dhammapada, Udana, Itivuttaka, Suttanipata, Vimanavatthu,
                        Petavatthu, Thera and Therigatha, Jataka, Niddesa,Patisambhida,Apadana,
                        Buddhavamsa, and Cariyapitaka, are called Suttantapitaka.
                        Dhammasangani, Vibhanga, dhatukatha, Puggalapannatti, Kathavattu,
                        Yamaka,and Patthana constitute the Abhidhammapitaka."
                        .....

                        S: We can see how much is included in the 84,000 units.

                        Metta

                        Sarah
                        =====
                      • Nina van Gorkom
                        Dear Han and Connie, Thank you for the Pali. Citta vaara: a round of cittas, a process of cittas. Cittas that experience objects through the six doorways arise
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 10, 2013
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                          Dear Han and Connie,
                          Thank you for the Pali.
                          Citta vaara: a round of cittas, a process of cittas. Cittas that
                          experience objects through the six doorways arise in a process,
                          vaara, as you know.
                          Nina.
                          Op 9-mrt-2013, om 18:17 heeft connie het volgende geschreven:

                          > Abhidhamme ekameka.m tikadukabhaajana.m ekameka~nca
                          > cittavaarabhaajana.m eko dhammakkhandho.



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • han tun
                          Dear Nina,   Thank you very much.   with metta and respect, Han ________________________________ From: Nina van Gorkom To:
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 10, 2013
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                            Dear Nina,
                             
                            Thank you very much.
                             
                            with metta and respect,
                            Han


                            ________________________________
                            From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
                            To: dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 3:39 PM
                            Subject: Re: Correction Re: [dsg] Re: 84,000 Dhamma-khandha

                             

                            Dear Han and Connie,
                            Thank you for the Pali.
                            Citta vaara: a round of cittas, a process of cittas. Cittas that
                            experience objects through the six doorways arise in a process,
                            vaara, as you know.
                            Nina.
                            Op 9-mrt-2013, om 18:17 heeft connie het volgende geschreven:

                            > Abhidhamme ekameka.m tikadukabhaajana.m ekameka~nca
                            > cittavaarabhaajana.m eko dhammakkhandho.

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                          • han tun
                            Dear Sarah,   Thank you very much.   with metta and respect, Han   ________________________________ From: sarah To:
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 10, 2013
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                              Dear Sarah,
                               
                              Thank you very much.
                               
                              with metta and respect,
                              Han
                               

                              ________________________________
                              From: sarah <sarahprocterabbott@...>
                              To: dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 3:04 PM
                              Subject: [dsg] Re: 84,000 Dhamma-khandha

                               

                              Dear Han,

                              Glad to see you writing here.

                              --- In mailto:dhammastudygroup%40yahoogroups.com, han tun <hantun1@...> wrote:

                              > Han: In the above passage, I do not understand the meaning
                              > of "as well as each classification of conscious intervals." Do you
                              > know what does it mean?
                              ....
                              S: The same details are also given in the commentary to the Vinaya. The account of the First Council in the Bahiranidana and Atthasalini explains how the 84,000 units of dhamma are comprised and these include the Abhidhamma units. Below we read about what exactly is included in the 84,000 units.

                              Baahiranidaana (Buddhaghosa's intro to the Commentary to the Vinaya).

                              It is from the section on The First Council,
                              (Jayawickrama's transl).
                              =========================================

                              Extracts from section 16 (p.14) onwards:

                              'The word of the Buddha which should be known as uniform in
                              sentiment,twofold as the Dhamma and the Vinaya, threefold according to the
                              first,intermediate, and last words, and similarly as Pitakas (Baskets),
                              fivefold according to the Nikayas (Collections), ninefold according to the
                              Angas(Factors), and forming 84,000 divisions according to the Units of the
                              Dhamma."
                              ......

                              "How is it twofold as the dhamma and the vinaya? All this, in its
                              entirety, is reckoned as the Dhamma and the Vinaya. Herein the Basket of
                              the Discipline is the Vinaya, the rest of the word of the Buddha is the
                              Dhamma. Hence was it stated: 'Let us, friends, rehearse the Dhamma and
                              the Vinaya,' and 'I shall question Upali on the Vinaya and Ananda on the
                              dhamma.' Thus it is twofold as the Dhamma and the Vinaya."
                              .....

                              A little later we read <section 20 (18):

                              "How is it threefold according to the Pitakas? Indeed, all this, in its
                              entirety, has the three divisions as the Vinaya-pitaka, the
                              suttantapitaka, and the Abhidhammapitaka. Therein, having brought
                              together all that has been both rehearsed and not at the First
                              convocation, both Patimokkha, the two Vibhanga, the 22 Khandhaka, and the
                              16 Parivara, it is called the Vinayapitaka.

                              "The collection of the 34 suttas beginning with Brahmajala called the
                              Dighanikaya, that of 152 suttas beginning with Mulapariyaya called the
                              Majjhimanikaya, that of 7,762 suttas beginning with Oghataranasutta called
                              the Samyuttanikaya, that of 9,557 suttas beginning with the
                              Cittapariyadanasutta, called the Anguttaranikaya, and the Khuddakanikaya
                              consisting of the 15 works:
                              Khuddakapatha, Dhammapada, Udana, Itivuttaka, Suttanipata, Vimanavatthu,
                              Petavatthu, Thera and Therigatha, Jataka, Niddesa,Patisambhida,Apadana,
                              Buddhavamsa, and Cariyapitaka, are called Suttantapitaka.
                              Dhammasangani, Vibhanga, dhatukatha, Puggalapannatti, Kathavattu,
                              Yamaka,and Patthana constitute the Abhidhammapitaka."
                              .....

                              S: We can see how much is included in the 84,000 units.

                              Metta

                              Sarah
                              =====




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                            • jonoabb
                              Hi Nina ... J: Thanks for providing a precise answer and a textual source. In the same passage I notice a reference to the eighty-four thousand Khandhas ,
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 11, 2013
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                                Hi Nina

                                --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Dear Han and Jon,
                                > Introductory Discourse in the Expositor, p. 34:
                                > "Which are the eighty-four thousand units of text?
                                > Eighty-two thousand from the Blessed One
                                > Two thousand from the bhikkhu Saariputta-
                                > Eighty-four thousand dhammas have I learned."
                                > Then it is all analysed.
                                > These were rehearsed at the first council.
                                > Nina.
                                > ===============

                                J: Thanks for providing a precise answer and a textual source.

                                In the same passage I notice a reference to the eighty-four thousand 'Khandhas', which I assume to be the same as 'units of text'.

                                It is said that these constitute the Buddha's 'middle sayings', i.e., the teaching given between his first words spoken as the Buddha and his last words as recorded in the Mahaparinibbana Sutta.

                                Jon
                              • Lukas
                                Dear Jon, ... L: I think khandhas has many meanings depending on context. The explanation by mean of words were given in Samohavinodhani(Dispeller of
                                Message 15 of 16 , Mar 11, 2013
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                                  Dear Jon,

                                  > In the same passage I notice a reference to the eighty-four thousand 'Khandhas', which I assume to be the same as 'units of text'.

                                  L: I think khandhas has many meanings depending on context. The explanation by mean of words were given in Samohavinodhani(Dispeller of delusion). And it may be: a group or instance or a pice I think. Or parts.

                                  Best wishes
                                  Lukas
                                • jonoabb
                                  Hi Lukas ... J: Thanks for these comments. I m familiar with the meaning of group , which sort of fits the context (group of words forming a unit of the
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Mar 11, 2013
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                                    Hi Lukas

                                    --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Lukas" <szmicio@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Dear Jon,
                                    >
                                    > > In the same passage I notice a reference to the eighty-four thousand 'Khandhas', which I assume to be the same as 'units of text'.
                                    >
                                    > L: I think khandhas has many meanings depending on context. The explanation by mean of words were given in Samohavinodhani(Dispeller of delusion). And it may be: a group or instance or a pice I think. Or parts.
                                    > ===============

                                    J: Thanks for these comments. I'm familiar with the meaning of 'group', which sort of fits the context (group of words forming a unit of the teaching).

                                    For some reason, the translation treats 'Khandha' here as a proper noun (similar to the name of a person or place).

                                    Jon

                                    > Best wishes
                                    > Lukas
                                    >
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