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Re: [dsg] Re: Vipassanaa (DT 888 ) to Htoo.

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear Htoo, Op 23-feb-2013, om 9:44 heeft htoonaing@ymail.com het volgende ... N As you say, just thinking sitting, etc. is no developing. It is thinking about
    Message 1 of 194 , Feb 24, 2013
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      Dear Htoo,

      Op 23-feb-2013, om 9:44 heeft htoonaing@... het volgende
      > When develop then there is doing. This doing is kammanta. Sammaa-
      > kammanta. It is led by right thinking and right understanding. They
      > are pa~n~naa-maggangaa. Again developing has to be associated with
      > samaadhi-maggangaa such as right effort, right mindfulness and
      > right concentration. Just thinking sitting, just thinking standing
      > and just thinking walking or just thinking lying is not developing.
      N As you say, just thinking sitting, etc. is no developing. It is
      thinking about a whole situatiuon instead of being aware of naama and
      ruupa one at a time. Sitting is a whole situation, it is not ruupa.
      While sitting there can be mindfulness of naama such as feeling and
      ruupa such as hardness, when they appear.
      > H: Expectation always associates with wanting something. But when
      > there is strong chanda but no lobha it is the right expectation.
      > The word expectation cannot explain the word chanda. This chanda is
      > almost always mixed with lobha.
      N: Yes, people confuse lobha and chanda. Chanda can be akusala or
      > H: Without pa.tipatti there is no pa~n~naa.
      N: There is pa~n~naa of different levels. Intellectual understanding
      stemming from listening to the Dhamma is pa~n~naa but not direct
      understanding of realities. Through pa.tipatti, awareness and
      understanding of characteristics of realities that appear, direct
      understanding is developed.
      > Htoo: Bhaavetiiti bhaavanaa. Developing the mind while ripening
      > pa~n~naa always directs to the very present.
      > The very present for example for me now when I am typing is that
      > screen is seen, words are seen, hands are typing and nothing stand
      > still. So also is thinking.
      N: Quite right, pa~n~naa understands the present object. Then you
      write about examples, wanting to show that nothing stands still. I
      think that you know the difference between awareness and thinking of
      a situation, but your words here could be misunderstood.
      You also write in this post: ' Just thinking sitting, just thinking
      standing and just thinking walking or just thinking lying is not
      developing.' Thus, you understand that developing direct
      understanding is not thinking.
      Since I know that people find it difficult to understand the
      difference I shall elaborate a little on this subject.

      Thinking is a reality, no self thinks but citta. We do not see the
      screen but we can think of it after seeing what is visible. A screen
      does not impinge on the eyesense, it is not visible object. It is a
      whole, a collection of things, a concept. However, without seeing
      visible object we could not think of a screen or words on the screen.
      Visible object and seeing fall away very rapidly, but so long as the
      arising and falling away of naama and ruupa has not been directly
      understood, it seems that they stay. Because of sa~n~naa we think of
      a screen.
      Hands are typing: this is thinking of a whole situation, because the
      rupas we take for a hand have fallen away as soon as we think of
      them. Where is the hand?

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • htoonaing@ymail.com
      Sukin wrote: Can you please explain to me, how the hindrances act as hindrances to the arising and development of samma ditthi? ... Htoo: Niivara.nas are
      Message 194 of 194 , Aug 26, 2013
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        Sukin wrote:

        Can you please explain to me, how the hindrances act as hindrances to the arising and development of samma ditthi?

        Niivara.nas are akusala. Akusala will not lead to sammaa-di.t.thi. When niivara.nas come they proliferate and there will be more and more akusala. These akusala may lead to pariyu.t.thaana to viitikkama kilesaa and then duccarita will arise. Duccarita break siila and then leads to wrong path.

        After you do this, can you also tell me where "Jahna practice" fits into this?

        Jhaana cittas are ruupa-kusala-jhaana-cittas and aruupa-kusala-jhaana cittas. They are tihetuka cittas. They do have pa~n~nindriya cetasika as their component. When wild mind can well be put under control of jhaana it is very easy to lead higher citta like anuttara cittas and vimutta cittas. Before entering jhaana there is contemplation. At emerging jhaana there also is contemplation. Contemplation of what. Contemplation on dhammas. What dhammas? Arising dhammas and arisen dhammas. As jhaana-cittas have just arisen these jhaana cittas and jhaana cetasikas are contemplated. There is no control there is on one there is subject there is no puggala but arising of kaamaavacara-mahaakusala-javana-cittas cognizing on jhaana cittas, jhaana cetasikas and then the general makers of these dhammas called anicca, dukkha, anatta become evident.

        I mean, how a citta (with accompanying cetasikas) which functions to suppress the hindrances with the aim to maintain concentration,
        influences the next citta (with accompanying cetasikas) which performs a totally different function, namely understanding the nature of a nama or rupa dhamma?

        You are tracking theoretical dreaming and not so practical. Pa~n~na suppress niivara.na. Pa~n~naa maintain samaadhi. Pa~n~naa influences the next cittas. Pa~n~na see(realize or parivajjhati) naama or ruupa and it changes its name as pa.tivedha. This only happen at the time of magga kha.na.

        Panna is sankhara, therefore accumulates with each arsing. It is
        illogical and strange then, to suggest that the hindrances are not
        hindrances to lower levels of panna, but are so to higher levels.

        The angle of view might cover your eyes not to see things as they really are.

        For the beginners there always are akusala mixed with kusala in the process of vipassanaa. If akusalas are not known then akusala will not be eradicated.

        But when samaadhi has to enter the power of indriya, bala, bojjha`nga and magga`nga then niivara.nas do hinder arising of magga.

        Now we can talk about "doing" again.

        Is the *doing* of meditation any more or less a "doing" than say, me
        typing this message or you reading it? If so, by virtue of which
        particular dhamma or set of dhammas this is? What exactly is
        "development" and how is that a *doing*?

        There are actions. Verbs represent 'actions'.

        There are

        1. verb-to-be
        2. verb-to-have
        3. verb-to-do

        Typing is *doing*. It is not 'is/be' it is not 'have'. But it is *doing*.

        Reading is not 'being' not 'having'. It is *doing*

        Developing exactly is "growing in power, growing in accumulation, growing in everything."

        "Yaadisa.m vapate biija.m, taadisa.m harate phala.m"

        With Metta,

        Htoo Naing
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