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Re:Dhamma is best psychology

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  • truth_aerator
    Hi Pt, all, ... A:In what way exactly is there difference of understanding? Is it amount of theory, ex: where stream-enterer knows a little, once-returner
    Message 1 of 49 , Feb 20, 2013
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      Hi Pt, all,

      >Pt:My take is that we know this, but just intellectually.
      >...I guess you'd agree that there's a difference between >understanding something intellectually and understanding it >directly.
      >>
      >A: What is the difference? Either one knows or one does not know.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >pt: Well, there are 4 stages of enlightenment, 17 stages of insight, >etc. It seems natural to me that there would be differences in the >level of understanding. So, intellectual understanding would be not >nearly quite as deep, or on the same level, as direct understanding.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


      A:In what way exactly is there difference of understanding? Is it amount of theory, ex: where stream-enterer knows a little, once-returner knows quantitetively more, etc?

      Can a worldling known theoretically much more theory than Arhat? Of course. So it is not merely amount or quality of theoretic knowledge that counts.

      >A: As for experience: If absolutely all mundane dhammas are anicca >dukkha and anatta, then we cannot not experience it.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >pt: Not sure what you mean here.

      A: It means that we *already* experience tilakkhana with every dhamma that arises because it is characteristic of arisen dhamma. We don't need to know about anicca in order for the arisen state to be anicca. Ignorance is not a protection.


      >A: On the eve of His awakening first two truths were "conventional", >and D.O. also contains "conventional" elements.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >pt: Not sure what you mean here. If you mean the 1NT translated as
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      I meant tevijja, triple "knowledge" - not 4NT.


      1st was recollection of his former lives. Conceptual.
      2nd was seeing working of kamma on other beings and their rebirth in accordance with it.

      3rd was seeing D.O. being born, aging, sickness, death, etc, all these are "conventional" things.


      With best wishes,

      Alex
    • jonoabb
      Hi Alex (and pt) ... J: Dukkha is a characteristic of all conditioned dhammas. As long as there is life in samsara, there is dukkha (even for the arahant).
      Message 49 of 49 , Feb 21, 2013
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        Hi Alex (and pt)

        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "truth_aerator" <truth_aerator@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Pt, all,
        >
        > >Pt:But, knowing that the feeling, >or perception, or anger, that is >experienced in this moment is >anatta or anicca - that is something >that is really important for >ending dukkha.
        > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
        >
        >
        > Here is what I wonder: Ok, so we know this. Why hasn't dukkha stopped?
        > ===============

        J: Dukkha is a characteristic of all conditioned dhammas. As long as there is life in samsara, there is dukkha (even for the arahant).

        Dukkha is ended only when parinibbana is attained.

        Jon
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