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Re: The Two Extremes...Sarah

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  • sarah
    Dear Alex, ... .... S: Starting with the 1st NT - what is this? ... .. ... ... S: Is seeing now dukkha? Is hearing dukkha? What is dukkha? ... ... S: There is
    Message 1 of 49 , Feb 19, 2013
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      Dear Alex,

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "truth_aerator" <truth_aerator@...> wrote:

      > >S: Yes, but the need to understand what?
      > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >
      > 4NT, for example.
      ....
      S: Starting with the 1st NT - what is this?
      ...
      >
      > >A:Dhamma is about cessatom of suffering, as since suffering is felt >in the mind, Dhamma is psychology in that sense. Dhamma IS the best >psychology, no question about that!
      > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      > > S: What do you mean by suffering? The cessation of what?
      ..
      >A: Suffering = Dukkha as 1st NT. It is cessation of that.
      ...
      S: Is seeing now dukkha? Is hearing dukkha? What is dukkha?
      ....

      > >S:We are discussing reality now. There is seeing now, there is >visible object now, there is thinking. Ideas about keyboards are >just ideas, just concepts.
      > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >
      >A: And these ideas are helpful. Imagine living where you see colors only but don't recognize shapes and objects. Is that your goal?
      >
      > One will die from starvation if one totally loses conceptualization.
      ...
      S: There is no suggestion of "losing conceptualization".

      The suggestion is that we don't need a Buddha to teach us how to conceptualize or to recognize colours and shapes. We're all experts at this already.
      ....

      > >S:No problem with that - but they are not realities which can be >directly known at this moment. Knowing all the fine details about >keyboards will not help one iota on the path to liberation.
      > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      >A: We need to know and realize 4NT.
      ...
      S: I'm still waiting for you to explain what the 1st NT is. Just to say "dukkha" is meaningless. What is dukkha? Dukkha of what?

      > >S:Yes, like now, without concepts, we could not communicate. >However, concepts can never be realities.
      > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >
      > Concepts are real in the sense that we can know them and communicate using them.
      ...
      S: Concepts are thought about. They do not have characteristics that can be directly known as anicca and dukkha. They are not objects of insight.

      Metta

      Sarah
      =====
    • jonoabb
      Hi Alex (and pt) ... J: Dukkha is a characteristic of all conditioned dhammas. As long as there is life in samsara, there is dukkha (even for the arahant).
      Message 49 of 49 , Feb 21, 2013
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        Hi Alex (and pt)

        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "truth_aerator" <truth_aerator@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Pt, all,
        >
        > >Pt:But, knowing that the feeling, >or perception, or anger, that is >experienced in this moment is >anatta or anicca - that is something >that is really important for >ending dukkha.
        > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
        >
        >
        > Here is what I wonder: Ok, so we know this. Why hasn't dukkha stopped?
        > ===============

        J: Dukkha is a characteristic of all conditioned dhammas. As long as there is life in samsara, there is dukkha (even for the arahant).

        Dukkha is ended only when parinibbana is attained.

        Jon
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