Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Pa~ncaayatana

Expand Messages
  • jonoabb
    Hi Lukas Great to see you back again, and to have your thoughts and comments. Looking forward to the opportunity for further discussion here and in Thailand
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 30, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Lukas

      Great to see you back again, and to have your thoughts and comments.

      Looking forward to the opportunity for further discussion here and in Thailand over the next 2-3 weeks.

      Jon


      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Lukas <szmicio@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear friends,
      >
      > Here comes an extract from Milindapa~nha on five ayatanas.
      >
      > <The King said: "Revered Nagasena, are these five (sensory) fields produced from different kammas or from one kamma?"
      >
      > "They are produced from different kammas, sire, not from one kamma."
      > "Make a simile"
      > "What do you think about this sire? If five (kinds of) seeds were sown in one field would different fruits be produced from these different seeds?"
      > "Yes revered sire, they would be so produced."
      > "Even so, sire, these five (sensory) fields are produced from different kammas, not from one kamma."
      > "You are dexterous revered Nagasena">
      > ...
    • sarah
      Dear Lukas, Great to see you back in good Dhamma form with many helpful reflections! I started adding some comments below and have seen Htoo has made the same
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 1, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Lukas,

        Great to see you back in good Dhamma form with many helpful reflections!

        I started adding some comments below and have seen Htoo has made the same ones, but perhaps will post anyway.

        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Lukas <szmicio@...> wrote:

        > Here comes an extract from Milindapa~nha on five ayatanas.
        >
        > <The King said: "Revered Nagasena, are these five (sensory) fields produced from different kammas or from one kamma?"
        >
        > "They are produced from different kammas, sire, not from one kamma."
        > "Make a simile"
        > "What do you think about this sire? If five (kinds of) seeds were sown in one field would different fruits be produced from these different seeds?"
        > "Yes revered sire, they would be so produced."
        > "Even so, sire, these five (sensory) fields are produced from different kammas, not from one kamma."
        > "You are dexterous revered Nagasena">
        >
        > L: There are five pairs(fields) of senses. 
        > Eye and visible object,
        > Ear and sound,
        > Tongue and flavour,
        > Nose and odour,
        > Body and tangible object,
        ...
        S: In the quote above, it is just the eye-, ear-, tongue-, nose- and body-sense being referred to as produced by kamma.

        The same cannot be said about visible object etc. There are 4 causes of these rupas. Those outside the body are never caused by kamma.
        ...
        >L:.... And we live in imaginary world, of my experience, my life, me in this or that situation. But we would be lived exactly like this.
        ...
        S: True!
        ...
        >L: Though we can slowly develop more consideration of all conditoned phenomena, like this is now, only eye base and a visible object base that comes becouse of past kamma.
        ...
        S:...."and visible object that may be conditioned by kamma, nutriment, citta or temperature"

        Look forward to seeing you in a few days, Lukas. Wishing you a good trip!

        Metta

        Sarah
        ====
      • sarah
        Dear Lukas, A couple more brief comments. I expect Htoo will add more. ... ... S: If we think that all done by kamma, no need to try to change , it s very
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 1, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear Lukas,

          A couple more brief comments. I expect Htoo will add more.

          --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Lukas" <szmicio@...> wrote:

          > > Htoo: There is a wrong view or di.t.thi that view as everything that we meet is because of kamma. It is called 'pubbekatakamma vaadii'
          > > ---------------------------
          >
          > L: I am trying to find out in my head what kind of wrong view can it be. Is it like 'just kamma performs everything' or 'all done by kamma, no need to try to change'? I think this is good to be aware(conscious) of all different kinds of wrong view there are. Do u know more?
          ...
          S: If we think that 'all done by kamma, no need to try to change', it's very dangerous. There is no "responsibility" for accumulations, no responsibility for developing kusala of all kinds. Past kamma becomes the "excuse" for whatever happens in life.

          Actually, the vipaka cittas, such as seeing or hearing, are very brief. What is important are the kusala or akusala cittas which follow them.
          ...
          >
          > There is this term kammasakata~nana, or something. This points out some knowladge. But I dont remember that.
          ...
          S: This refers to the knowledge of kamma, the results of kamma, (i.e. vipaka cittas and rupas condiitoned by kamma) as being produced by 'one's own' kamma, not the deeds of anyone else. We tend to think that when we're praised or blamed, hurt or helped, that the causes lie outside, but actually, the hearing and the experiencing through the body-sense at such times are a result of kamma.

          The attachment or aversion to what is heard or experienced through the body-sense, however, is conditioned by natural decisive support condition, not kamma.

          Metta

          Sarah
          =====
        • htoonaing@ymail.com
          Dear Lukas and Dhamma Friends, Htoo: As I always do please below. ... - In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Lukas wrote: Dear Htoo, Let me add some of my
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 4, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Lukas and Dhamma Friends,

            Htoo: As I always do please below.
            ---------------------------------------
            - In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Lukas" wrote:

            Dear Htoo,
            Let me add some of my thoughts.
            ----------------------------
            > Htoo: Pa~n~naa for consideration arises from studying dhamma by listening, reading, teaching and so on. Without the aid of The Buddha the lokuttara pa~n~naa will not arise.
            > -----------------------------
            L: Actually there can be some wise thoughts without Dhamma, but that insight that leads to freedom, to ending of all defilments, this is due to Buddha-Dhamma only. So aid of Sammasambuddha needed.
            --------------------------------
            Htoo: I totally agree with you on this point.
            -------------------------------
            Lucas: The worldy wisdom is not our goal. The goal is a wisdom that sees and discerns all conditioned phenomena that appears right now. So there can be more detachment from all what we call 'life'.
            ---------------------------------
            Htoo: True.Worldly wisdom also include the wisdom that can hold the Dhamma texts by heart. To discern all conditioned phenomena that appears right now is initially difficult. This is part of practice or pa.tipatti.
            ---------------------------------
            > Htoo: Dhammavicaya or investigative mind is the 2nd bojjhanga of 7 bojjhanga ( 7 factors of enlightenment). If there is not enough satipa.t.thaana and samappaddhaana (viiriya or effort) then it comes very very slowly.
            > --------------------------------

            Lucas: What do mean by samappaddhaana and bojjhanga? Can u say more?
            ------------------------------------
            Htoo: Sammappaddhaana is a form of viiriya or a kind of effort. It is not simple effort. It is the effort that tries to remove the existing bad kamma. It is the effort that prevents the coming bad kamma. It is the effort the helps to develop new kusala. It is the effort that exponentially proliferate kusala.

            Bojjhanga is factor of enlightenment. Bojjhanga = bodhi(penetrating knowledge or enlightenment) + anga (part). There are 7 factors that help to develop path-consciousness. They are sati, dhammaavicaya(wisdom), viriya (effort), piiti(joy), passaddhi (calmness), samaadhi(concentration), and upekkha (equanimity).
            ------------------------------------------
            > L: We live only because there are conditions for kamma to bring its result.
            > -------------------------------
            > Htoo: There is a wrong view or di.t.thi that view as everything that we meet is because of kamma. It is called 'pubbekatakamma vaadii'
            > ---------------------------
            L: I am trying to find out in my head what kind of wrong view can it be. Is it like 'just kamma performs everything' or 'all done by kamma, no need to try to change'? I think this is good to be aware(conscious) of all different kinds of wrong view there are. Do u know more?
            --------------------------
            Htoo: Yes. As you said. Some people assume that everything that happens is brought about by kamma.That is wrong.
            ------------------------------------------
            Lukas: There is this term kammasakata~nana, or something. This points out some knowladge. But I dont remember that.

            > Best wishes
            > Lukas
            ------------------------------------
            Htoo: Kammassakaataa ~naana. This is that if someone does good thing good result will appear. If bad thing then bad result will appear.

            Kammassakaataa = kamma (doing or fate) + assa ( of ) + kata (have done).

            Sammaa-di.t.thi has many phases.

            1. kammassakaata sammaa-di.t.thi
            2. jhaana sammaa-di.t.thi
            3. vipassanaa sammaa-di.t.thi
            4. magga sammaa-di.t.thi
            5. phala sammaa-di.t.thi

            With Unlimited Metta,

            Htoo Naing
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.