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Re: Patthana in Satipatthana

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  • jonoabb
    Hi SLF Welcome to the list from me. ... J: As I understand it, patthana in satipatthana means something like foundation . I am not familiar with patthana
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 30, 2012
      Hi SLF

      Welcome to the list from me.

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "salaflowers" <nguyen.lanp@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi all,
      >
      > SLF: Is patthana in satipatthana any concern with patthana which are 24 paccaya?
      > ===============

      J: As I understand it, 'patthana' in satipatthana means something like 'foundation'.

      I am not familiar with 'patthana' in the context of the 24 paccaya (except as the name of an Abhidhamma text that deals with the subject).

      > ===============
      > Is that possible sati not only of nama/rupa arises and passes away but with the understanding about causual relationship for that nama/rupa to arise?
      > ===============

      J: To my understanding, as sati develops to higher levels, the relationships between dhammas become clearer (to panna).

      Does this help?

      Jon

      PS Would be interested to see a short self-introduction!
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Dear salaflowers, ... N: pa.t.thaana: setting forth, putting forward, from pa.t.thahati. Satipa.t.thaana: this has several meanings, actualy three. The objects
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 1, 2012
        Dear salaflowers,
        Op 30-nov-2012, om 4:46 heeft salaflowers het volgende geschreven:

        > SLF: What I wonder is the meaning of the word 'Patthana'in
        > 'Satipatthana', what Buddha wanted us to know when using
        > 'satipatthana'
        -----
        N: pa.t.thaana: setting forth, putting forward, from pa.t.thahati.
        Satipa.t.thaana: this has several meanings, actualy three. The
        objects of mindfulness, sati of the level of satipa.t.thaana, and the
        way the Buddha and his disciples went: not being cast down when
        people would not listen, nor having attachment when they would
        listen, but being evenminded no matter they would listen or not.
        --------
        >
        > SLF: If sati of rupa or nama, it seems to be sati of the result
        > only. And characteristic of rupa/nama may seem to be the 'soul' of
        > that rupa or nama, if so, that will be the atta. We all agree that
        > 'sabbe Dhamma anattati', now we may not have the idea of someone,
        > but may still have the idea of something.
        -------
        N: Result us usually used in the sense of result of kamma, vipaaka
        and this does not pertain here.
        No soul in naama and ruupa, they are not someone, nor something. They
        have no core. They arise and then fall away.
        ------
        >
        > SLF: Thus, satipatthana may be sati of the patthana (of all Dhamma)
        > which seems to be the rule for nama and rupa to arise, one after
        > another. Can that be the meaning of satipatthana?
        -----
        N: See above.
        Nina.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Prasad Praturi
        ... Prasad: My understaing is as follows: In the Satipattana... actually one read at Sati + Upatthana.. Upatthana is like upasthita in sanskrit... Which
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 1, 2012
          > Dear salaflowers,
          > Op 30-nov-2012, om 4:46 heeft salaflowers het volgende geschreven:
          >
          > > SLF: What I wonder is the meaning of the word 'Patthana'in
          > > 'Satipatthana', what Buddha wanted us to know when using
          > > 'satipatthana'
          > -----

          Prasad: My understaing is as follows:
          In the Satipattana... actually one read at Sati + Upatthana.. Upatthana is like 'upasthita' in sanskrit... Which means firm estblishment...

          Satipattana means firm foundation of mindfulness (in four ways).

          ...

          Other meaning patthna is "setting forth"... leads meaning of conditionality...so patthana in abhidhamma is translated as conditional relations..


          Prasad
        • han tun
          Dear Salaflowers, The English translation of Paa.li words by different Authors may be different. For example, pa.t.thaana in Satipa.t.thaana can mean
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 1, 2012
            Dear Salaflowers,

            The English translation of Paa.li words by different Authors may be different.

            For example, "pa.t.thaana" in Satipa.t.thaana can mean "arousing" according to Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi.

            Excerpt from the Message by Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi in The Way of Mindfulness by Ven Soma Thera:

            Quote: [The Satipatthana Sutta, the Discourse on the Foundations of Mindfulness, is generally regarded as the canonical Buddhist text with the fullest instructions on the system of meditation unique to the Buddha's own dispensation. The practice of Satipatthana meditation centers on the methodical cultivation of one simple mental faculty readily available to all of us at any moment. This is the faculty of mindfulness, the capacity for attending to the content of our experience as it becomes manifest in the immediate present. What the Buddha shows in the sutta is the tremendous, but generally hidden, power inherent in this simple mental function, a power that can unfold all the mind's potentials culminating in final deliverance from suffering.

            To exercise this power, however, mindfulness must be systematically cultivated, and the sutta shows exactly how this is to be done. The key to the practice is to combine energy, mindfulness, and clear comprehension in attending to the phenomena of mind and body summed up in the "four arousings of mindfulness": body, feelings, consciousness, and mental objects. Most contemporary meditation teachers explain Satipatthana meditation as a means for generating insight (vipassana). While this is certainly a valid claim, we should also recognize that satipatthana meditation also generates concentration (samadhi). Unlike the forms of meditation which cultivate concentration and insight sequentially, Satipatthana brings both these faculties into being together, though naturally, in the actual process of development, concentration will have to gain a certain degree of stability before insight can exercise its penetrating function. In Satipatthana, the act of
            attending to each occasion of experience as it occurs in the moment fixes the mind firmly on the object. The continuous attention to the object, even when the object itself is constantly changing, stabilizes the mind in concentration, while the observation of the object in terms of its qualities and characteristics brings into being the insight knowledges.] End Quote.
            http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/soma/wayof.html

            ---------------

            Whereas, "pa.t.thaana" in Pa.t.thaana can mean "a system of relations" according to Professor U Ko Lay, in his book, Guide to the Tipi.taka.

            Quote: [VII. Patthana Pali

            Patthana Pali, the seventh and last book of the Abhidhamma, is called the Haha Pakarana. the 'Great Book' announcing the supreme position it occupies and the height of excellence it has reached in its investigations into the ultimate nature of all the dhammas in the Universe.

            The Dhammasangani gives an enumeration of these dhammas classifying them under the Tika and Duke groups. Vibhanga analyses them to show what dhammas are contained in the major categories of khandhas, ayatanas, dhatus etc. Dhatukatha studies the relationship of dhammas listed in the Matika with each component of these major categories of khandhas, ayatanas and dhatus. Yamaka resolves ambiguity in the internal and external relationship of each dhamma. Patthana forming the last book of the Abhidhamma brings together all such relationship in a co-ordinated form to show that the dhammas do not exist as isolated entities but they constitute a well ordered system in which the smallest unit conditions the rest of it and is also being conditioned in return. The arrangement of the system is so very intricate, complex, highly thorough and complete that it earns for this treatise the reputation of being deep, profound and unfathomable.

            An outline of the Patthana system of relations.

            Patthana, made up of the words"pa" and "thana", means a system of relations. The Great Treatise of Patthana arranges all conditioned things, (twenty-two Tikas and one hundred Dukas of the Matika), under twenty-four kinds of relations, describes and classifies them into a complete system for understanding the mechanics of the universe of Dhamma. The whole work is divided into four great divisions, namely:

            (i) Anuloma Patthana which studies the instances in which paccaya relations do exist between the dhammas.
            (ii) Paccaniya Patthana which studies the in stances in which paccaya relations do not exist between the dhammas.
            (iii) Anuloma Paccaniya Patthana which studies the instances in which some of the paccaya relations do exist between the dhammas but the others do not.
            (iv) Paccaniya Anuloma Patthana which studies the instances in which some of the paccaya relations do not exist between the dhammas, but the others do exist.

            The twenty four paccayas relations are applied to these four great divisions in the following six ways:

            (i) Tika Patthana: The twenty four paccayas are applied to the dhammas in their twenty four Tika groups

            (ii) Duka Patthana: The twenty four paccayas are applied to the dhammas in their one hundred Duka groups.

            (iii) Duka-Tika Patthana: The twenty four paccayas applied to the dhammas in their one hundred Dukes mixed with twenty two Tika groups.

            (iv) Tika-Duka Patthana: The twenty four paccayas applied to the dhammas in their twenty two Tikas mixed with one hundred Duke groups.

            (v) Tika-Tika Patthana: The twenty four paccayas applied to the dhammas in the twenty two Tika groups mixed with one another.

            (vi) Duka-Duka Patthana: The twenty four paccayes applied to the dhammas in their one hundred Duke groups mixed with one another.

            The four patthanas of the four great divisions when permuted with the six patthanas of the six ways result in twenty four treatises which constitute the gigantic compilation of abstract Abhidhamma known as the Mahapakarana or as the commentary and subcommentary name it "Anantanaya Samanta Fatthana" to denote its profundity and fathomless depth.] End Quote.
            http://www.budsas.org/ebud/guide-tipitaka/guidetipitaka-00.htm

            ----------

            with metta,
            Han
          • jonoabb
            Hi again Salaflowers ... J: Now that I ve seen the replies from Nina, Prasad and Han Tun I understand better the point you re raising. You are wondering if
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 2, 2012
              Hi again Salaflowers

              --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "jonoabb" <jonabbott@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi SLF
              >
              > Welcome to the list from me.
              >
              > --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "salaflowers" <nguyen.lanp@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi all,
              > >
              > > SLF: Is patthana in satipatthana any concern with patthana which are 24 paccaya?
              > > ===============
              >
              > J: As I understand it, 'patthana' in satipatthana means something like 'foundation'.
              >
              > I am not familiar with 'patthana' in the context of the 24 paccaya (except as the name of an Abhidhamma text that deals with the subject).
              >
              > > ===============
              > > Is that possible sati not only of nama/rupa arises and passes away but with the understanding about causual relationship for that nama/rupa to arise?
              > > ===============
              >
              > J: To my understanding, as sati develops to higher levels, the relationships between dhammas become clearer (to panna).
              > ===============

              J: Now that I've seen the replies from Nina, Prasad and Han Tun I understand better the point you're raising.

              You are wondering if the 'patthana' part of 'satipatthana' in the Satipatthana Sutta signifies that the awareness being described in that sutta is (or involves) awareness of the conditions pertaining between dhammas as dealt with in the Abhidhamma text.

              I suspect that the answer is, as explained by the other members, that the term 'patthana' has a different meaning in each context. This seems to be supported by the fact that in the Satipatthana Sutta the 4 patthanas there mentioned are described as follows:

              "1. a bhikkhu lives contemplating the body in the body, ardent, clearly comprehending (it) and mindful (of it), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief;
              "2. he lives contemplating the feelings in the feelings, ardent...;
              "3. he lives contemplating consciousness in consciousness, ardent ...;
              "4. he lives contemplating mental objects in mental objects, ardent, clearly comprehending (them) and mindful (of them), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief."

              I think the key expressions here are: contemplating the body in the body, ... the feelings in the feelings, ... consciousness in consciousness, mental objects in mental objects, ardent, clearly comprehending (them) and mindful (of them).

              So while the relations between dhammas are part of the understanding that is developed, that is not the specific meaning of 'patthana' in the context of satipatthana.

              Jon
            • sarah
              Dear Prasad & SLF, ... ... S: Yes, I understand the same way. ... ... S: Glad to see you posting again, Prasad. I just remembered when I saw your name that
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 3, 2012
                Dear Prasad & SLF,

                --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Prasad Praturi" <ppraturi@...> wrote:

                > Prasad: My understaing is as follows:
                > In the Satipattana... actually one read at Sati + Upatthana.. Upatthana is like 'upasthita' in sanskrit... Which means firm estblishment...
                >
                > Satipattana means firm foundation of mindfulness (in four ways).
                ...
                S: Yes, I understand the same way.
                ...
                > Other meaning patthna is "setting forth"... leads meaning of conditionality...so patthana in abhidhamma is translated as conditional relations..
                ...
                S: Glad to see you posting again, Prasad. I just remembered when I saw your name that before you asked me to let you know if there were any more Dhamma meetings/gatherings with Ajahn Sujin. We have several trips and gatherings arranged in Thailand during January. I posted some details before on DSG but you may not have seen. Could you send me an email off-list if you'd like to find out more detail. It would be a good chance to listen to Ajahn and to meet many of us from DSG, but let me know very soon as places have already been booked.

                SLF, are you one of our dear friends from Hanoi? Very welcome here and hope you'll introduce yourself a little sometime. Glad to read your good questions.

                Metta

                Sarah
                ====
              • Tam Bach
                Dear Sarah and SLF, S: SLF, are you one of our dear friends from Hanoi? Very welcome here and hope you ll introduce yourself a little sometime. Glad to read
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 4, 2012
                  Dear Sarah and SLF,

                  S: SLF, are you one of our dear friends from Hanoi? Very welcome here and
                  hope you'll introduce yourself a little sometime. Glad to read your good questions.

                  T: Hic, hic, I think so too :-). Mysterious SFL :-)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • salaflowers
                  Dear Prasad, Han, Jon, Sara, Tam, Nina,... Thank you all for your information and sharing. Your inputs give me more understanding and open some thing new to
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 4, 2012
                    Dear Prasad, Han, Jon, Sara, Tam, Nina,...

                    Thank you all for your information and sharing. Your inputs give me more understanding and open some thing new to research more :)

                    Yes, I'm Lan, from Vietnam, I've met Jon and Sara in Hanoi :)
                    Why do I feel like hearing your voice when reading your words, Sara? :). Always so, reading and hearing the sound of the words being read.

                    I've practised vipassana for the past 4 years, with the objects of rising-falling, and minds, and sensations and also read books of some meditation teachers and Bhikkhu Bodhi. During that time, there was not any wonder about the popupar meaning of satipatthana which is 4 foundations of mindfulness: body, sensation, minds and mind objects.

                    Recently, I've just felt that it seems to have something behind that familiar meaning and behind things we used to know. Like the processing system behind the letters we see in the screen when typing :). Like the truth or the nature of impermance behind the rising and passing away of nama-rupa...

                    I'm feel glad like seeing some friends from past :)
                    @Prasad: where have you been and now here when i'm here :P

                    SLF.

                    --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "sarah" <sarahprocterabbott@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear Prasad & SLF,
                    >
                    > --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Prasad Praturi" <ppraturi@> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Prasad: My understaing is as follows:
                    > > In the Satipattana... actually one read at Sati + Upatthana.. Upatthana is like 'upasthita' in sanskrit... Which means firm estblishment...
                    > >
                    > > Satipattana means firm foundation of mindfulness (in four ways).
                    > ...
                    > S: Yes, I understand the same way.
                    <...>
                  • Nina van Gorkom
                    Dear Salaflowers, Thanks for your nice letter. I would like it so much to meet you, perhaps in Bgk in Januari? You seem full of interest in the Dhamma. Nina.
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 4, 2012
                      Dear Salaflowers,
                      Thanks for your nice letter. I would like it so much to meet you,
                      perhaps in Bgk in Januari? You seem full of interest in the Dhamma.
                      Nina.
                      Op 4-dec-2012, om 16:29 heeft salaflowers het volgende geschreven:

                      > Thank you all for your information and sharing. Your inputs give me
                      > more understanding and open some thing new to research more :)



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Tam Bach
                      SLF: Yes, I m Lan, from Vietnam T: Nice to meet you Lan :-). I like SLF :-) Tam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 4, 2012
                        SLF: Yes, I'm Lan, from Vietnam

                        T: Nice to meet you Lan :-).


                        I like SLF :-)

                        Tam


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • sarah
                        Dear Lan, ... .... S: And I thought the words sounded like my dear friend, Lan:-) Always, good, probing, intelligent questions. I appreciate your approach and
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 9, 2012
                          Dear Lan,

                          --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "salaflowers" <nguyen.lanp@...> wrote:

                          > Yes, I'm Lan, from Vietnam, I've met Jon and Sara in Hanoi :)
                          > Why do I feel like hearing your voice when reading your words, Sara? :). Always so, reading and hearing the sound of the words being read.
                          ....
                          S: And I thought the words sounded like my dear friend, Lan:-) Always, good, probing, intelligent questions. I appreciate your approach and questioning of what you hear.
                          ...
                          > I've practised vipassana for the past 4 years, with the objects of rising-falling, and minds, and sensations and also read books of some meditation teachers and Bhikkhu Bodhi. During that time, there was not any wonder about the popupar meaning of satipatthana which is 4 foundations of mindfulness: body, sensation, minds and mind objects.
                          >
                          > Recently, I've just felt that it seems to have something behind that familiar meaning and behind things we used to know. Like the processing system behind the letters we see in the screen when typing :). Like the truth or the nature of impermance behind the rising and passing away of nama-rupa...
                          ...
                          S: I think, as we discussed in Hanoi, that we have to carefully consider the meaning of each word. For example, "vipassana", what is it? What does it mean to "practice vipassana"? If there is not the direct understanding now of realities, such as seeing and visible object, can there be any understanding of the impermanence of realities? If there is not the understanding of these realities, isn't it always "I" who is practising or meditating or trying to be aware?
                          ...
                          >
                          > I'm feel glad like seeing some friends from past :)
                          > @Prasad: where have you been and now here when i'm here :P
                          ...
                          S: You've met before. Good!

                          Look forward to more discussions, Lan.

                          Metta

                          Sarah
                          p.s As Nina also suggested, still hoping to seeing you in Thailand:-)
                          ========
                          =====
                        • salaflowers
                          Dear Sarah and Nina, Thank you for your care about me :) Sarah, do you want to put me into the hot seat, again, hehe? There are a lot of things useful,
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 11, 2012
                            Dear Sarah and Nina,

                            Thank you for your care about me :)

                            Sarah, do you want to put me into the hot seat, again, hehe?

                            There are a lot of things useful, detailed and clear about realities which arise and pass away when listening to discussions here. Deep and professional ;)

                            That's a good way to discuss because even reading the same sutta or same book but different understanding about those things written.

                            It's not a problem for me to practise or not practise. Just did it, in a traditional way, by conditions. That's not to attach, not to reject.

                            The first time, last year, Sis Tambach sent me some short teachings of Achan, I read a bit then informed her that could not get in, later see more usefulness. Some books already in my rack for years but didnt open those (but others) until one day, read and feel interest. That is, by conditions.

                            Everyday waking up, checking mail, reading some messages from DSG, raising question if any comes, naturally. That's enough for me. Here and now, not ready for Jan or anything else :)

                            With respect and metta,

                            Lan./.


                            --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "sarah" <sarahprocterabbott@...> wrote:
                            <...>
                            > S: I think, as we discussed in Hanoi, that we have to carefully consider the meaning of each word. For example, "vipassana", what is it? What does it mean to "practice vipassana"? If there is not the direct understanding now of realities, such as seeing and visible object, can there be any understanding of the impermanence of realities? If there is not the understanding of these realities, isn't it always "I" who is practising or meditating or trying to be aware?
                            <...>
                          • Nina van Gorkom
                            Dear salaflowers, ... N: That is very good what you are doing. I would say, keep on asking if something is not quite clear. Even if you keep on asking, it is
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 12, 2012
                              Dear salaflowers,
                              Op 12-dec-2012, om 5:52 heeft salaflowers het volgende geschreven:

                              > Everyday waking up, checking mail, reading some messages from DSG,
                              > raising question if any comes, naturally. That's enough for me.
                              > Here and now, not ready for Jan or anything else :)
                              ------
                              N: That is very good what you are doing. I would say, keep on asking
                              if something is not quite clear. Even if you keep on asking, it is
                              very good, the way to understand more.
                              Nina.



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • sarah
                              Dear Lan, ... ... S: Always happy to do this, Lan:-) ... ... S: Very true. ... ... S: Actually, just conditioned dhammas, no matter how our lives go. .. ...
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 20, 2012
                                Dear Lan,

                                --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "salaflowers" <nguyen.lanp@...> wrote:

                                > Thank you for your care about me :)
                                >
                                > Sarah, do you want to put me into the hot seat, again, hehe?
                                ...
                                S: Always happy to do this, Lan:-)
                                ...
                                >
                                > There are a lot of things useful, detailed and clear about realities which arise and pass away when listening to discussions here. Deep and professional ;)
                                >
                                > That's a good way to discuss because even reading the same sutta or same book but different understanding about those things written.
                                ...
                                S: Very true.
                                ...
                                >
                                > It's not a problem for me to practise or not practise. Just did it, in a traditional way, by conditions. That's not to attach, not to reject.
                                ...
                                S: Actually, just conditioned dhammas, no matter how our lives go.
                                ..
                                >
                                > The first time, last year, Sis Tambach sent me some short teachings of Achan, I read a bit then informed her that could not get in, later see more usefulness. Some books already in my rack for years but didnt open those (but others) until one day, read and feel interest. That is, by conditions.
                                ...
                                S: Yes, we never know what will happen or what we'll take an interest in.
                                ...
                                >
                                > Everyday waking up, checking mail, reading some messages from DSG, raising question if any comes, naturally. That's enough for me. Here and now, not ready for Jan or anything else :)
                                ...
                                S: Good. Look forward to any qus anytime. Just "here and now", realities to be known. Ready for whatever appears now!

                                Did you listen to any of the edited recordings from Poland or the ones we're editing and uploading now from Kaeng Krachan 2012? I think you'd appreciate these a lot.

                                Metta

                                Sarah

                                p.s would be nice if you and Tam and any of the other members could put your photos in the member album on the homepage.
                                =====
                              • Tam Bach
                                Dear Sarah, S: p.s would be nice if you and Tam and any of the other members could put your photos in the member album on the homepage. Wait, wait, Sarah, we
                                Message 15 of 19 , Dec 21, 2012
                                  Dear Sarah,

                                  S: p.s would be nice if you and Tam and any of the other members could put your photos in the member album on the homepage.


                                  Wait, wait, Sarah, we have to find our most beautiful pictures first :-)))!


                                  Tam

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • salaflowers
                                  Dear Sara, ... L: But sometimes I also get lost in following discussions. Because you know, I m almost new to Abhidhamma, still at the period of receiving
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Dec 23, 2012
                                    Dear Sara,



                                    --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "sarah" <sarahprocterabbott@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Dear Lan,
                                    >
                                    > --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "salaflowers" <nguyen.lanp@> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Thank you for your care about me :)
                                    > >
                                    > > Sarah, do you want to put me into the hot seat, again, hehe?
                                    > ...
                                    > S: Always happy to do this, Lan:-)
                                    > ...
                                    > >
                                    > > There are a lot of things useful, detailed and clear about realities which arise and pass away when listening to discussions here. Deep and professional ;)
                                    > >
                                    > > That's a good way to discuss because even reading the same sutta or same book but different understanding about those things written.
                                    > ...
                                    > S: Very true.

                                    L: But sometimes I also get lost in following discussions. Because you know, I'm almost new to Abhidhamma, still at the period of receiving basic knowledge while some questions or answers are not firm or of personal opinion :)

                                    > >
                                    > > It's not a problem for me to practise or not practise. Just did it, in a traditional way, by conditions. That's not to attach, not to reject.
                                    > ...
                                    > S: Actually, just conditioned dhammas, no matter how our lives go.
                                    > ..
                                    > >
                                    > > The first time, last year, Sis Tambach sent me some short teachings of Achan, I read a bit then informed her that could not get in, later see more usefulness. Some books already in my rack for years but didnt open those (but others) until one day, read and feel interest. That is, by conditions.
                                    > ...
                                    > S: Yes, we never know what will happen or what we'll take an interest in.
                                    > ...
                                    > >
                                    > > Everyday waking up, checking mail, reading some messages from DSG, raising question if any comes, naturally. That's enough for me. Here and now, not ready for Jan or anything else :)
                                    > ...
                                    > S: Good. Look forward to any qus anytime. Just "here and now", realities to be known. Ready for whatever appears now!
                                    >
                                    > Did you listen to any of the edited recordings from Poland or the ones we're editing and uploading now from Kaeng Krachan 2012? I think you'd appreciate these a lot.

                                    L: I've just downloaded some and will listen to them later. Sadhu for all what you all have done to propagate the Dhamma!

                                    > Metta
                                    >
                                    > Sarah
                                    >
                                    > p.s would be nice if you and Tam and any of the other members could put your photos in the member album on the homepage.

                                    L: Okey, I'll :)

                                    With metta,

                                    Lan./.
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