Re: [dsg] Re: Kamma - it's only the linchpin
- Hi Jon,
Thanks for coming in on this thread.
D: long time no talk ;-)
(D:yes, enlightened beings have broken the series of connections set out in D.O. . . .
> ===============J: As far as I know, the texts do not talk about `breaking' the chain of DO. The chain is either going one way (anuloma = with the flow) by virtue of the occurring of ignorance, leading to further existence, or the other way (patiloma = against the flow) by virtue of the occurring of panna, leading to release from samsara.
D: breaking the chain ( by its weakest links ..) and going the way of cessation against the flow..
I recall vaguely sutta sources .. but you may be right, that the texts are not directly saying 'breaking the chain'. D.O. provides the background of the first 2 Noble Truth and hints where the chain can be broken. The (Know) How is of course the 8fold Noble Path.
J:In other words, ignorance is either being accumulated or destroyed.
D: ignorance can be replaced gradually by insight .. no more fuel for the fire , ignorance will cease too
J:There is no scenario in the texts of `interrupting' the chain that leads to further existence part way through.
D: the scenario concerns magga phala which is lokuttara .. an interruption for the 3 first types of the Noble Ones at the moment of path consciousness.
J: I am quite an admirer of Ven Nyanatiloka, based on his `Buddhist Dictionary' and `Word of the Buddha' publications, and I particularly like his description above of anatta as "the impersonality and emptiness of all phenomena of existence".
D: me too .. a good source of mediation for further discussion ;-)
with Metta Dieter
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- Hi Ken H,
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Ken H" <kenhowardau@...> wrote:
> KH: I am tempted to say "Hooray, I was right all along!" but there is sure to be a catch.
S: The catch is really when we think that it's "I" who was right (or wrong) and forget about dhammas again:-)
> KH: Good, I hope we can all agree on that. I am prepared to accept that my [personal, idiosyncratic] way of expanding on that point is incomprehensible to others and sounds like armchair philosophy, or intellectualising. I shall refrain from holding court on that particular subject for the foreseeable future.
S: So many DSGers including ourselves, Nina, Lukas, Alberto, the Vietnamese & Jagkrit will be travelling as from today (for those from Europe) and from tomorrow (for those like ourselves in Asia) - so look forward to reading your expansions and those of others while we're away:-)
> KH: Yes, one moment at a time. So there is really no 14 year period and no travelling to HK; there is just the present reality.
> PPS: Corrections welcome! :-)
S: All sounds good to me.