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Knowing dhamma as dhamma (3).

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear friends, Knowing dhamma as dhamma (3). Acharn: One should not think : satipa.t.thaana is too difficult and I do not have conditions for awareness to be
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 15, 2012
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      Dear friends,

      Knowing dhamma as dhamma (3).

      Acharn: One should not think : satipa.t.thaana is too difficult and I
      do not have conditions for awareness to be aware. This is a moment of
      thinking again. Just leave it to the development of understanding of
      realities. Don�t expect anything, and then there will be conditions
      for awareness to arise; it arises and pa~n~naa knows that it arises.
      That is sati of satipa.t.thaana, different from sati of other levels.

      No one can stop thinking, but there are two kinds of thinking: right
      thinking and wrong thinking. Understanding the characteristic of
      satipa.t.thaana can be a condition for sati to arise.

      At this very moment there is sound and usually we think of a concept
      of it. Thinking about it follows instantly, but if we do not think
      there can be a moment of studying: it can be known as only a reality.
      It is difficult, but it is possible.

      When we are, for example, touching, hardness is experienced and
      thinking about a concept of it follows instantly. But if there is no
      thinking about a concept, hardness is still there and understanding
      begins to develop by knowing that it appears at the point where it is
      touched. What you take for the whole body does not appear. There is
      only thinking about the whole body, but this does not appear.

      -------

      Nina.




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    • upasaka@aol.com
      Hi, Nina (and all) - In a message dated 11/15/2012 9:10:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, vangorko@xs4all.nl writes: Dear friends, Knowing dhamma as dhamma (3).
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 15, 2012
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        Hi, Nina (and all) -

        In a message dated 11/15/2012 9:10:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        vangorko@... writes:

        Dear friends,

        Knowing dhamma as dhamma (3).

        Acharn: One should not think : satipa.t.thaana is too difficult and I
        do not have conditions for awareness to be aware. This is a moment of
        thinking again. Just leave it to the development of understanding of
        realities. Don’t expect anything, and then there will be conditions
        for awareness to arise; it arises and pa~n~naa knows that it arises.
        That is sati of satipa.t.thaana, different from sati of other levels.

        No one can stop thinking, but there are two kinds of thinking: right
        thinking and wrong thinking. Understanding the characteristic of
        satipa.t.thaana can be a condition for sati to arise.

        At this very moment there is sound and usually we think of a concept
        of it. Thinking about it follows instantly, but if we do not think
        there can be a moment of studying: it can be known as only a reality.
        It is difficult, but it is possible.

        When we are, for example, touching, hardness is experienced and
        thinking about a concept of it follows instantly. But if there is no
        thinking about a concept, hardness is still there and understanding
        begins to develop by knowing that it appears at the point where it is
        touched. What you take for the whole body does not appear. There is
        only thinking about the whole body, but this does not appear.

        -------

        Nina.
        ====================================
        I think that any genuine Zen master would be very happy with this!! :-)

        With metta,
        Howard


        Seamless Interdependence

        /A change in anything is a change in everything/

        (Anonymous)



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      • Dieter Moeller
        Dear Nina, (and Howard), just between.. you write: No one can stop thinking,.... D: only when you think stop thinking , Nina ;-) I understand that stop
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 15, 2012
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          Dear Nina, (and Howard),

          just between..
          you write:

          'No one can stop thinking,....'

          D: only when you think ' stop thinking' , Nina ;-)
          I understand that 'stop thinking ' occurs when it rests e.g. in joyful feeling, leaving behind v. and v.
          Isn't that exactly what the 2nd Jhana states?
          And letting (the action of) thinking pass/phasing out , is a rather common state of meditation (samatha ).

          I suppose above is said to emphasise thinking in relation to the contemplation of the 4 frames of Satipatthana ?

          with Metta Dieter


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nina van Gorkom
          Dear Dieter, ... N: Even that is thinking. ... N: Difficult to attain 2nd jhaana, and indeed, no vitakka and vicara. ... N: Yes. Direct awareness and direct
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 15, 2012
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            Dear Dieter,
            Op 15-nov-2012, om 17:28 heeft Dieter Moeller het volgende geschreven:

            > 'No one can stop thinking,....'
            >
            > D: only when you think ' stop thinking' , Nina ;-)
            ---------
            N: Even that is thinking.
            -------
            > D:I understand that 'stop thinking ' occurs when it rests e.g. in
            > joyful feeling, leaving behind v. and v.
            > Isn't that exactly what the 2nd Jhana states?
            > And letting (the action of) thinking pass/phasing out , is a rather
            > common state of meditation (samatha ).
            -----
            N: Difficult to attain 2nd jhaana, and indeed, no vitakka and vicara.
            -------
            >
            > D:I suppose above is said to emphasise thinking in relation to the
            > contemplation of the 4 frames of Satipatthana ?
            ------
            N: Yes. Direct awareness and direct understanding of naama and ruupa
            is different from just thinking of them.
            ------
            Nina.



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