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Re: A Female Buddha

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  • connie
    hi Dieter, RevT, ... on further reflection, though, they only answer that a female Sammasambuddha will never be, however: Is each and every arahant a type of
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 13, 2012
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      hi Dieter, RevT,

      >
      > good quotations .. I copied , thanks.
      >

      on further reflection, though, they only answer that a female Sammasambuddha will never be, however: Is each and every arahant a type of buddha or does 'buddha' only apply for the pacceka- and sammaasam-buddhas?

      revisiting the earlier quoted sutta:

      AN ekakanipaatapaa.li, 15. a.t.thaanapaa.li, 2. dutiyavaggo
      279. "a.t.thaanameta.m, bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m itthii araha.m assa sammaasambuddho. neta.m .thaana.m vijjati. .thaana~nca kho, eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m puriso araha.m assa sammaasambuddho. .thaanameta.m vijjatii"ti.

      Numerical Discourses: "It is impossible and inconceivable, bhikkhus, that woman could be an arahant who is a perfectly enlightened Buddha ... But it is possible that a man could occupy the psition [of a perfectly enlightened Buddha]; there is such a possibility."

      back to the books!

      from Udaana 1.5: The Discourse about the Elders
      http://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/Texts-and-Translations/Udana/1-Bodhivaggo-05.htm
      "Baahitvaa paapake dhamme, ~ ye caranti sadaa sataa,
      Those who, having removed bad things, live always mindful,
      Khii.nasa.myojanaa Buddhaa, ~ te ve lokasmi.m braahma.naa" ti.
      The Buddhas who have destroyed the fetters, ~ truly they are braahma.nas in the world."

      Udaana Cy, vol 1, p94:
      Those in whom the fetter has been destroyed (khii.nasa.myojanaa): those in whom the fetter has been completely destroyed on account of the fact that the fetter, that is tenfold, has been extirpated by means of all four ariyan paths. Buuddhas (buddhaa): buddhas as a result of awakening to the four thruths; and these are, moreover, threefold, viz. saavakabuddhas, paccekabuddhas and Sammaasambuddhas; as to these, it is saavakabuddhas that are, in this case, implied.
      <end quote>


      > Is there ANYWHERE in the Tipitaka where any FEMALE Buddha's or FEMALE Buddha is ACTUALLY mentioned or is the potential just implied ?

      If we include saavakabuddhas, the Theriigaathaa is full of examples.

      best wishes,
      connie
    • Dieter Moeller
      Hi Connie, I assume what is stated is that there will be never a female Sammaasambuddha , i.e. a Fully Enlightened One, who rediscovers and teaches the
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 13, 2012
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        Hi Connie,

        I assume what is stated is that there will be never a female Sammaasambuddha , i.e. a Fully Enlightened One, who rediscovers and teaches the ancient truths after the true dhamma has disappeared.
        Saavakabuddhas are Arahants , enlightened disciples , aren't they ? You are right, there were quite a number of female Arahants (see http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/women.html )
        I can't recall to have read about paccekabuddhas .As those are supposed to have developed the truths by themselves but not being able repsectively unwilling to teach , their recognition was likely quite difficult.. perhaps only mentioned as a possibilty

        with Metta Dieter.




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • connie
        hey Dieter, ... c: that s how i read the sutta, too... ... c: yes. ... c: speaking of not recognizing them, check out this entry on the silent
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 13, 2012
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          hey Dieter,


          > I assume what is stated is that there will be never a female Sammaasambuddha , i.e. a Fully Enlightened One, who rediscovers and teaches the ancient truths after the true dhamma has disappeared.

          c: that's how i read the sutta, too...


          > Saavakabuddhas are Arahants , enlightened disciples , aren't they ? You are right, there were quite a number of female Arahants (see http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/women.html )

          c: yes.


          > I can't recall to have read about paccekabuddhas .As those are supposed to have developed the truths by themselves but not being able repsectively unwilling to teach , their recognition was likely quite difficult.. perhaps only mentioned as a possibilty
          >

          c: speaking of not recognizing them, check out this entry on the 'silent' paccekabuddhas!
          http://www.palikanon.de/english/pali_names/ku/khaggavisaana.htm
          {khaggavisaana: (rhino) with a sword-like horn}
          i don't recall a single solitary female buddha story/mention.

          later,
          connie
        • han tun
          Dear Connie, I have the chance to see your reply to Dieter, and RevT. I find it very useful and I thank you very much. I could locate what you have referred
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 14, 2012
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            Dear Connie,

            I have the chance to see your reply to Dieter, and RevT.
            I find it very useful and I thank you very much.
            I could locate what you have referred to.

            A"nguttara Nikaaya, ekakanipaatapaa.li, 15. a.t.thaanapaa.li, 2. Dutiyavaggo

            279. "A.t.thaanameta.m, bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m itthii araha.m assa sammaasambuddho. Neta.m .thaana.m vijjati. .thaana~nca kho, eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m puriso araha.m assa sammaasambuddho. .thaanameta.m vijjatii"ti.

            279. Bhikkhus, it is impossible that a woman could be the worthy, rightfully enlightened all knowing one. It is possible that a man could be the worthy, rightfully enlightened all knowing one.
            ----------
            280. "A.t.thaanameta.m , bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m itthii raajaa assa cakkavattii. Neta.m .thaana.m vijjati. .thaana~nca kho eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m puriso raajaa assa cakkavattii. .thaanameta.m vijjatii"ti.

            280. Bhikkhus, it is impossible that a woman could be the universal monarch. It is possible that a man could be the universal monarch.
            ----------
            281-283. "A.t.thaanameta.m, bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m itthii sakkatta.m kaareyya [pe] maaratta.m kaareyya [pe] brahmatta.m kaareyya. Neta.m .thaana.m vijjati. .thaana~nca kho eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m puriso sakkatta.m kaareyya [pe] maaratta.m kaareyya [pe] brahmatta.m kaareyya. .thaanameta.m vijjatii"ti.

            281. Bhikkhus, it is impossible that a woman could be the king of gods [Sakka]. It is possible that a man could be the king of gods.

            282. Bhikkhus, it is impossible that a woman could be the king of Death [Maara]. It is possible that a man could be the king of Death.

            283. Bhikkhus, it is impossible that a woman could be the highest divine one [Brahmaa] It is possible that a man could be the highest divine one.
            ----------

            I am also grateful to you for quoting
            Udaana, 1. Bodhi vagga, 5. Braahma.na Sutta.
            http://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/Texts-and-Translations/Udana/1-Bodhivaggo-05.htm

            with metta and respect,
            Han

            --- On Wed, 11/14/12, connie <nichicon@...> wrote:
            From: connie <nichicon@...>
            Subject: [dsg] Re: A Female Buddha
            To: dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, November 14, 2012, 3:06 AM

            hi Dieter, RevT,

            >
            > good quotations .. I copied , thanks.
            >

            on further reflection, though, they only answer that a female Sammasambuddha will never be, however: Is each and every arahant a type of buddha or does 'buddha' only apply for the pacceka- and sammaasam-buddhas?

            revisiting the earlier quoted sutta:

            AN ekakanipaatapaa.li, 15. a.t.thaanapaa.li, 2. dutiyavaggo
            279. "a.t.thaanameta.m, bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m itthii araha.m assa sammaasambuddho. neta.m .thaana.m vijjati. .thaana~nca kho, eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m puriso araha.m assa sammaasambuddho. .thaanameta.m vijjatii"ti.

            Numerical Discourses: "It is impossible and inconceivable, bhikkhus, that woman could be an arahant who is a perfectly enlightened Buddha ... But it is possible that a man could occupy the psition [of a perfectly enlightened Buddha]; there is such a possibility."

            back to the books!

            from Udaana 1.5: The Discourse about the Elders
            http://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/Texts-and-Translations/Udana/1-Bodhivaggo-05.htm
            "Baahitvaa paapake dhamme, ~ ye caranti sadaa sataa,
            Those who, having removed bad things, live always mindful,
            Khii.nasa.myojanaa Buddhaa, ~ te ve lokasmi.m braahma.naa" ti.
            The Buddhas who have destroyed the fetters, ~ truly they are braahma.nas in the world."

            Udaana Cy, vol 1, p94:
            Those in whom the fetter has been destroyed (khii.nasa.myojanaa): those in whom the fetter has been completely destroyed on account of the fact that the fetter, that is tenfold, has been extirpated by means of all four ariyan paths. Buuddhas (buddhaa): buddhas as a result of awakening to the four thruths; and these are, moreover, threefold, viz. saavakabuddhas, paccekabuddhas and Sammaasambuddhas; as to these, it is saavakabuddhas that are, in this case, implied.
            <end quote>

            > Is there ANYWHERE in the Tipitaka where any FEMALE Buddha's or FEMALE Buddha is ACTUALLY mentioned or is the potential just implied ?

            If we include saavakabuddhas, the Theriigaathaa is full of examples.

            best wishes,
            connie
          • Dieter Moeller
            Hi Connie, Han, ... {khaggavisaana: (rhino) with a sword-like horn} i don t recall a single solitary female buddha story/mention. D: thanks for the link The
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 14, 2012
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              Hi Connie, Han,

              you wrote:

              : speaking of not recognizing them, check out this entry on the 'silent' paccekabuddhas! http://www.palikanon.de/english/pali_names/ku/khaggavisaana.htm
              {khaggavisaana: (rhino) with a sword-like horn} i don't recall a single solitary female buddha story/mention.




              D: thanks for the link

              "The Commentary (SNA.i.46ff) divides the sutta into four vaggas and gives each a separate name (except the first), the name being generally derived from the first word of the stanza. It is said that the Buddha preached the Khaggavisana Sutta in response to a question asked of him by Ananda regarding the attainment of Enlightenment by Pacceka Buddhas; the Buddha gave details of their abhinihara and patthana, and illustrated them by reciting to Ananda stanzas which had been uttered by Pacceka Buddhas of old on various occasions and at different periods as their paeans of joy (udana)."

              Reading a.m. sutta I can't see the connection Pacceka Buddha,
              http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.1.03.than.html

              rather adressing the truthseeker: to rely on one's own, the solitude (so often emphasised) ..the metaphor of the rhino..it was the way , Prince Gotama chose, wasn't it?
              Are those adressed not already taught ..and by that not developing the truth by themselves alone anymore?

              with Metta Dieter


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Rev Triple
              Connie, Thank you Connie! Rev.Triple [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 25, 2012
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                Connie,

                Thank you Connie!


                Rev.Triple

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • connie
                hi, Dieter, ... D: thanks for the link The Commentary (SNA.i.46ff) divides the sutta into four vaggas and gives each a separate name (except the first), the
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 29, 2012
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                  hi, Dieter,

                  > c: speaking of not recognizing them, check out this entry on the 'silent' paccekabuddhas! http://www.palikanon.de/english/pali_names/ku/khaggavisaana.htm
                  > {khaggavisaana: (rhino) with a sword-like horn} i don't recall a single solitary female buddha story/mention.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  D: thanks for the link

                  "The Commentary (SNA.i.46ff) divides the sutta into four vaggas and gives each a separate name (except the first), the name being generally derived from the first word of the stanza. It is said that the Buddha preached the Khaggavisana Sutta in response to a question asked of him by Ananda regarding the attainment of Enlightenment by Pacceka Buddhas; the Buddha gave details of their abhinihara and patthana, and illustrated them by reciting to Ananda stanzas which had been uttered by Pacceka Buddhas of old on various occasions and at different periods as their paeans of joy (udana)."

                  Reading a.m. sutta I can't see the connection Pacceka Buddha,
                  http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.1.03.than.html

                  rather adressing the truthseeker: to rely on one's own, the solitude (so often emphasised) ..the metaphor of the rhino..it was the way , Prince Gotama chose, wasn't it?
                  Are those adressed not already taught ..and by that not developing the truth by themselves alone anymore?

                  connie: yes, missing the whole pacceka buddha connection without the Commentary to point it out to us was my point. I’m not understanding your questions, though, sorry.

                  c.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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