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A Female Buddha

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  • Rev Triple
    Is there ANYWHERE in the Tipitaka where any FEMALE Buddha s or FEMALE Buddha is ACTUALLY mentioned or is the potential just implied ? THANK YOU!
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 13, 2012
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      Is there ANYWHERE in the Tipitaka where any FEMALE Buddha's or FEMALE Buddha is ACTUALLY mentioned or is the potential just implied ?

      THANK YOU!
    • connie
      Rev Triple, ... from Gradual Sayings I, ch XV, The impossible:
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 13, 2012
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        Rev Triple,

        >
        > Is there ANYWHERE in the Tipitaka where any FEMALE Buddha's or FEMALE Buddha is ACTUALLY mentioned or is the potential just implied ?
        >


        from Gradual Sayings I, ch XV, The impossible:
        < It is impossible, monks, it cannot come to pass, that a woman should be an Arahant who is a Fully Enlightened One. But, monks, it is quite possible for a man to be one ... So likewise with regard to an universal monarch. That a woman should become a Sakka, a Maara, a Brahmaa, is a thing impossible. But a man may be. >

        from The A"nguttara Nikaaya, Notes to the Ones, 157:
        < It seems that in the old Nikaayas the idea of aspiring for future Buddhahood is not raised at all. Thus the claim being made here is not that a woman cannot become a perfectly enlightened Buddha in a future life but that a Buddha is always male. The assertion in this sutta need not be read as excluding the possibility that one who is presently a woman could become a Buddha, but this would have to take place in a future life, after she has undergone a change of gender. {c: snipping remarks on Indian culture and Chinese texts...} According to such later canonical texts as the Buddhavamsa, if a woman resolves to attain Buddhahood in the presence of a Buddha, her resolution does not succeed (ie, she does not receive the prediction of future Buddhahood). For the resolution to succeed, the aspirant must be a male who has left the home life. {snip} >

        from A Treatise on the Paaramiis (All-Embracing Net of Views, BPS'92 p251):
        < The condition of the paaramiis is, firstly, the great apsiration (abhiniihaara). This is the aspiration supported by the eight qualifications (to be shortly discussed), which occurs thus: "Crossed I would cross, freed I would free, tamed I would tame, calmed I would calm, comforted I would comfort, attained to nibbana I would lead to nibbaana, purified I would purifiy, enlightened I would enlighten!" This is the condition for all the paaramiis without exception.
        The eight qualifications through which the aspiration succeeds are: the human state, the male sex, the cause, the sight of the Master, the going forth, the achievement of noble qualities, extreme dedication, and strong desire (see Bv II v 59).
        (1) The human state (manussatta): The aspiration for Buddhahood only succeeds when made by one who has attained to the human state of existence, not when made by one existing as a Naaga, Supa.n.na, etc. Why? Because these other states do not correspond with the state of a Buddha (who always arises in the human state).
        (2) The male sex (lingasampatti): For one who has attained to the human state, the aspiration only succeeds when made by a man, not when made by a woman, eunuch, neuter, or hermaphrodite. Why? For the aforesaid reason (i.e. because the Buddha is always of the male sex), and because there is no fulfilment of the required characteristics (in these other cases). As it is said: "This is impossible, bhikkhus, this cannot come to pass, that a woman might become a Holy One, a perfectly enlightened Buddha" (A.I.15.2.2)
        (3) The cause (hetu): the achievement of the necessary supporting conditions. Even for a man, the aspiration only succeeds for one endowed with the necessary supporting conditions, one who has achieved the requisite causal foundation, not for anyone else. >

        hope that helps,
        connie
      • Dieter Moeller
        Hi Connie, good quotations .. I copied , thanks. with Metta Dieter [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 13, 2012
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          Hi Connie,

          good quotations .. I copied , thanks.

          with Metta Dieter




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • connie
          hi Dieter, RevT, ... on further reflection, though, they only answer that a female Sammasambuddha will never be, however: Is each and every arahant a type of
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 13, 2012
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            hi Dieter, RevT,

            >
            > good quotations .. I copied , thanks.
            >

            on further reflection, though, they only answer that a female Sammasambuddha will never be, however: Is each and every arahant a type of buddha or does 'buddha' only apply for the pacceka- and sammaasam-buddhas?

            revisiting the earlier quoted sutta:

            AN ekakanipaatapaa.li, 15. a.t.thaanapaa.li, 2. dutiyavaggo
            279. "a.t.thaanameta.m, bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m itthii araha.m assa sammaasambuddho. neta.m .thaana.m vijjati. .thaana~nca kho, eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m puriso araha.m assa sammaasambuddho. .thaanameta.m vijjatii"ti.

            Numerical Discourses: "It is impossible and inconceivable, bhikkhus, that woman could be an arahant who is a perfectly enlightened Buddha ... But it is possible that a man could occupy the psition [of a perfectly enlightened Buddha]; there is such a possibility."

            back to the books!

            from Udaana 1.5: The Discourse about the Elders
            http://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/Texts-and-Translations/Udana/1-Bodhivaggo-05.htm
            "Baahitvaa paapake dhamme, ~ ye caranti sadaa sataa,
            Those who, having removed bad things, live always mindful,
            Khii.nasa.myojanaa Buddhaa, ~ te ve lokasmi.m braahma.naa" ti.
            The Buddhas who have destroyed the fetters, ~ truly they are braahma.nas in the world."

            Udaana Cy, vol 1, p94:
            Those in whom the fetter has been destroyed (khii.nasa.myojanaa): those in whom the fetter has been completely destroyed on account of the fact that the fetter, that is tenfold, has been extirpated by means of all four ariyan paths. Buuddhas (buddhaa): buddhas as a result of awakening to the four thruths; and these are, moreover, threefold, viz. saavakabuddhas, paccekabuddhas and Sammaasambuddhas; as to these, it is saavakabuddhas that are, in this case, implied.
            <end quote>


            > Is there ANYWHERE in the Tipitaka where any FEMALE Buddha's or FEMALE Buddha is ACTUALLY mentioned or is the potential just implied ?

            If we include saavakabuddhas, the Theriigaathaa is full of examples.

            best wishes,
            connie
          • Dieter Moeller
            Hi Connie, I assume what is stated is that there will be never a female Sammaasambuddha , i.e. a Fully Enlightened One, who rediscovers and teaches the
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 13, 2012
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              Hi Connie,

              I assume what is stated is that there will be never a female Sammaasambuddha , i.e. a Fully Enlightened One, who rediscovers and teaches the ancient truths after the true dhamma has disappeared.
              Saavakabuddhas are Arahants , enlightened disciples , aren't they ? You are right, there were quite a number of female Arahants (see http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/women.html )
              I can't recall to have read about paccekabuddhas .As those are supposed to have developed the truths by themselves but not being able repsectively unwilling to teach , their recognition was likely quite difficult.. perhaps only mentioned as a possibilty

              with Metta Dieter.




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • connie
              hey Dieter, ... c: that s how i read the sutta, too... ... c: yes. ... c: speaking of not recognizing them, check out this entry on the silent
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 13, 2012
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                hey Dieter,


                > I assume what is stated is that there will be never a female Sammaasambuddha , i.e. a Fully Enlightened One, who rediscovers and teaches the ancient truths after the true dhamma has disappeared.

                c: that's how i read the sutta, too...


                > Saavakabuddhas are Arahants , enlightened disciples , aren't they ? You are right, there were quite a number of female Arahants (see http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/women.html )

                c: yes.


                > I can't recall to have read about paccekabuddhas .As those are supposed to have developed the truths by themselves but not being able repsectively unwilling to teach , their recognition was likely quite difficult.. perhaps only mentioned as a possibilty
                >

                c: speaking of not recognizing them, check out this entry on the 'silent' paccekabuddhas!
                http://www.palikanon.de/english/pali_names/ku/khaggavisaana.htm
                {khaggavisaana: (rhino) with a sword-like horn}
                i don't recall a single solitary female buddha story/mention.

                later,
                connie
              • han tun
                Dear Connie, I have the chance to see your reply to Dieter, and RevT. I find it very useful and I thank you very much. I could locate what you have referred
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 14, 2012
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                  Dear Connie,

                  I have the chance to see your reply to Dieter, and RevT.
                  I find it very useful and I thank you very much.
                  I could locate what you have referred to.

                  A"nguttara Nikaaya, ekakanipaatapaa.li, 15. a.t.thaanapaa.li, 2. Dutiyavaggo

                  279. "A.t.thaanameta.m, bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m itthii araha.m assa sammaasambuddho. Neta.m .thaana.m vijjati. .thaana~nca kho, eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m puriso araha.m assa sammaasambuddho. .thaanameta.m vijjatii"ti.

                  279. Bhikkhus, it is impossible that a woman could be the worthy, rightfully enlightened all knowing one. It is possible that a man could be the worthy, rightfully enlightened all knowing one.
                  ----------
                  280. "A.t.thaanameta.m , bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m itthii raajaa assa cakkavattii. Neta.m .thaana.m vijjati. .thaana~nca kho eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m puriso raajaa assa cakkavattii. .thaanameta.m vijjatii"ti.

                  280. Bhikkhus, it is impossible that a woman could be the universal monarch. It is possible that a man could be the universal monarch.
                  ----------
                  281-283. "A.t.thaanameta.m, bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m itthii sakkatta.m kaareyya [pe] maaratta.m kaareyya [pe] brahmatta.m kaareyya. Neta.m .thaana.m vijjati. .thaana~nca kho eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m puriso sakkatta.m kaareyya [pe] maaratta.m kaareyya [pe] brahmatta.m kaareyya. .thaanameta.m vijjatii"ti.

                  281. Bhikkhus, it is impossible that a woman could be the king of gods [Sakka]. It is possible that a man could be the king of gods.

                  282. Bhikkhus, it is impossible that a woman could be the king of Death [Maara]. It is possible that a man could be the king of Death.

                  283. Bhikkhus, it is impossible that a woman could be the highest divine one [Brahmaa] It is possible that a man could be the highest divine one.
                  ----------

                  I am also grateful to you for quoting
                  Udaana, 1. Bodhi vagga, 5. Braahma.na Sutta.
                  http://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/Texts-and-Translations/Udana/1-Bodhivaggo-05.htm

                  with metta and respect,
                  Han

                  --- On Wed, 11/14/12, connie <nichicon@...> wrote:
                  From: connie <nichicon@...>
                  Subject: [dsg] Re: A Female Buddha
                  To: dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, November 14, 2012, 3:06 AM

                  hi Dieter, RevT,

                  >
                  > good quotations .. I copied , thanks.
                  >

                  on further reflection, though, they only answer that a female Sammasambuddha will never be, however: Is each and every arahant a type of buddha or does 'buddha' only apply for the pacceka- and sammaasam-buddhas?

                  revisiting the earlier quoted sutta:

                  AN ekakanipaatapaa.li, 15. a.t.thaanapaa.li, 2. dutiyavaggo
                  279. "a.t.thaanameta.m, bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m itthii araha.m assa sammaasambuddho. neta.m .thaana.m vijjati. .thaana~nca kho, eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m puriso araha.m assa sammaasambuddho. .thaanameta.m vijjatii"ti.

                  Numerical Discourses: "It is impossible and inconceivable, bhikkhus, that woman could be an arahant who is a perfectly enlightened Buddha ... But it is possible that a man could occupy the psition [of a perfectly enlightened Buddha]; there is such a possibility."

                  back to the books!

                  from Udaana 1.5: The Discourse about the Elders
                  http://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/Texts-and-Translations/Udana/1-Bodhivaggo-05.htm
                  "Baahitvaa paapake dhamme, ~ ye caranti sadaa sataa,
                  Those who, having removed bad things, live always mindful,
                  Khii.nasa.myojanaa Buddhaa, ~ te ve lokasmi.m braahma.naa" ti.
                  The Buddhas who have destroyed the fetters, ~ truly they are braahma.nas in the world."

                  Udaana Cy, vol 1, p94:
                  Those in whom the fetter has been destroyed (khii.nasa.myojanaa): those in whom the fetter has been completely destroyed on account of the fact that the fetter, that is tenfold, has been extirpated by means of all four ariyan paths. Buuddhas (buddhaa): buddhas as a result of awakening to the four thruths; and these are, moreover, threefold, viz. saavakabuddhas, paccekabuddhas and Sammaasambuddhas; as to these, it is saavakabuddhas that are, in this case, implied.
                  <end quote>

                  > Is there ANYWHERE in the Tipitaka where any FEMALE Buddha's or FEMALE Buddha is ACTUALLY mentioned or is the potential just implied ?

                  If we include saavakabuddhas, the Theriigaathaa is full of examples.

                  best wishes,
                  connie
                • Dieter Moeller
                  Hi Connie, Han, ... {khaggavisaana: (rhino) with a sword-like horn} i don t recall a single solitary female buddha story/mention. D: thanks for the link The
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 14, 2012
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                    Hi Connie, Han,

                    you wrote:

                    : speaking of not recognizing them, check out this entry on the 'silent' paccekabuddhas! http://www.palikanon.de/english/pali_names/ku/khaggavisaana.htm
                    {khaggavisaana: (rhino) with a sword-like horn} i don't recall a single solitary female buddha story/mention.




                    D: thanks for the link

                    "The Commentary (SNA.i.46ff) divides the sutta into four vaggas and gives each a separate name (except the first), the name being generally derived from the first word of the stanza. It is said that the Buddha preached the Khaggavisana Sutta in response to a question asked of him by Ananda regarding the attainment of Enlightenment by Pacceka Buddhas; the Buddha gave details of their abhinihara and patthana, and illustrated them by reciting to Ananda stanzas which had been uttered by Pacceka Buddhas of old on various occasions and at different periods as their paeans of joy (udana)."

                    Reading a.m. sutta I can't see the connection Pacceka Buddha,
                    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.1.03.than.html

                    rather adressing the truthseeker: to rely on one's own, the solitude (so often emphasised) ..the metaphor of the rhino..it was the way , Prince Gotama chose, wasn't it?
                    Are those adressed not already taught ..and by that not developing the truth by themselves alone anymore?

                    with Metta Dieter


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Rev Triple
                    Connie, Thank you Connie! Rev.Triple [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 25, 2012
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                      Connie,

                      Thank you Connie!


                      Rev.Triple

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • connie
                      hi, Dieter, ... D: thanks for the link The Commentary (SNA.i.46ff) divides the sutta into four vaggas and gives each a separate name (except the first), the
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 29, 2012
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                        hi, Dieter,

                        > c: speaking of not recognizing them, check out this entry on the 'silent' paccekabuddhas! http://www.palikanon.de/english/pali_names/ku/khaggavisaana.htm
                        > {khaggavisaana: (rhino) with a sword-like horn} i don't recall a single solitary female buddha story/mention.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        D: thanks for the link

                        "The Commentary (SNA.i.46ff) divides the sutta into four vaggas and gives each a separate name (except the first), the name being generally derived from the first word of the stanza. It is said that the Buddha preached the Khaggavisana Sutta in response to a question asked of him by Ananda regarding the attainment of Enlightenment by Pacceka Buddhas; the Buddha gave details of their abhinihara and patthana, and illustrated them by reciting to Ananda stanzas which had been uttered by Pacceka Buddhas of old on various occasions and at different periods as their paeans of joy (udana)."

                        Reading a.m. sutta I can't see the connection Pacceka Buddha,
                        http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.1.03.than.html

                        rather adressing the truthseeker: to rely on one's own, the solitude (so often emphasised) ..the metaphor of the rhino..it was the way , Prince Gotama chose, wasn't it?
                        Are those adressed not already taught ..and by that not developing the truth by themselves alone anymore?

                        connie: yes, missing the whole pacceka buddha connection without the Commentary to point it out to us was my point. I’m not understanding your questions, though, sorry.

                        c.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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