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Sri Lanka Revisited, Ch 7, no 4.

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear friends, (Bhante Dhammadharo s sermon, continuation): ... When defilements arise there are conditions for them. It is of no use being disappointed or
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 1, 2012
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      Dear friends,

      (Bhante Dhammadharo's sermon, continuation):

      "... When defilements arise there are conditions for them. It is of
      no use being disappointed or surprised about them. There is only one
      way to cope with them: have more understanding of whatever has
      arisen. There should not be forgetfulness of lobha. It is with us
      nearly all the time in some form or other. It is like an enemy with
      the appearance of a friend, very hard to detect. It is like a friend
      who speaks nicely, waits upon us, smiles at the right time. Who would
      know that that very pleasant, confortable and secure feeling we have
      is really an enemy, the cause of all suffering, the cause of the
      arising of realities from moment to moment, one after the other. We
      may even cling to kusala. Although it brings pleasant results, it is
      still impermanent, it is still dukkha. It is anatt�, nothing abiding,
      nothing lasting, nothing substantial.
      Remind yourself again and again of what the goal is. Don�t be
      negligent. When it is time for d�na, give! Even when it is not time
      for d�na, perhaps it can be made into time for d�na. Don�t be
      negligent as to s�la. If one neglects s�la, who knows what could
      happen. All sorts of bad deeds of the past might have an opportunity
      to give bad results, they might cause one to be in a situation where
      one cannot hear Dhamma anymore. Don�t be negligent as to calm, the
      moments one is free from lobha, dosa and moha. We should have mett�
      towards other people, instead of seeing them as objects of
      competition, objects to be jealous of, objects to run down. Above
      all, most important, don�t be negligent to study the present reality.
      Don�t forget to be aware of r�pa, of the different types of r�pa that
      arise and appear through the senses. Be aware of visible object that
      appears from morning to night, arising and passing away unnoticed.
      The present reality should be studied in order to get rid of
      ignorance which caused us to be born and which will cause us to go on
      being born again and again if there is no development of right
      understanding.

      May you all be well and happy with right understanding!�

      After the Bhante�s sermon Acharn Sujin gave Dhamma d�na to us all.
      She spoke about the deepest cause of all our failures in the
      development of satipatth�na: our own defilements which we have
      accumulated for so long. She reminded us again of our fundamental
      inconsistence: we want to develop satipatth�na in order to eradicate
      the concept of self, but we still continue to consider ourselves as
      very important. This selfish attitude appears in our manner and
      speech, it can be very prominent. We often speak about realities such
      as seeing, hearing or thinking as anatt�, non-self, but do we realize
      it when there is plain selfishness in daily life? Up till now we did
      not understand very well that less clinging to the concept of self
      also means being less selfish in our daily life. We are so used to
      thinking of ourselves that we do not notice it. Acharn Sujin reminded
      us to realize more the moments we think of ourselves and to realize
      our action and speech that are motivated by egoism.

      -------

      Nina.




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • philip
      Hi Nina and all ... no use being disappointed or surprised about them. There is only one way to cope with them: have more understanding of whatever has arisen.
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 1, 2012
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        Hi Nina and all

        I would just like to cut and paste this wonderful passage from Ven. Dhammadaro's sermon:

        >"... When defilements arise there are conditions for them. It is of
        no use being disappointed or surprised about them. There is only one
        way to cope with them: have more understanding of whatever has
        arisen. There should not be forgetfulness of lobha. It is with us
        nearly all the time in some form or other. It is like an enemy with
        the appearance of a friend, very hard to detect. It is like a friend
        who speaks nicely, waits upon us, smiles at the right time. Who would
        know that that very pleasant, confortable and secure feeling we have
        is really an enemy, the cause of all suffering, the cause of the
        arising of realities from moment to moment, one after the other. We
        may even cling to kusala. Although it brings pleasant results, it is
        still impermanent, it is still dukkha. It is anatta, nothing abiding,
        nothing lasting, nothing substantial.

        Ph: Tonight I heard Ajahn say "dhamma(s) belong to nobody, nobody is their owner." I was walking and there was a moment of understanding that there often *is* thinking of "my kusala" etc. That is the "idea of self" that I always hear about in talks.

        In one of the transcripts I found A.S say "when there is understanding, there is awareness" so no need to think about when there is awareness, how much awareness, something like that. Does that mean that understanding lobha and all the other very very prevalent akusala dhammas is all that is necessary? We don't have to think about awarness at all? Can I just forget about "sati?" Why is sati important to understand when panna seems to be enough? Is there always sati when there is panna, but not always panna when there is sati?

        Thanks Nina

        Phil

        Phil
      • Nina van Gorkom
        Dear Phil, ... N: No, because just intellectual understanding of lobha etc. is not enough. Lobha has to be known as just a dhamma. Not by thinking about it. By
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 1, 2012
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          Dear Phil,
          Op 1-nov-2012, om 12:23 heeft philip het volgende geschreven:

          > In one of the transcripts I found A.S say "when there is
          > understanding, there is awareness" so no need to think about when
          > there is awareness, how much awareness, something like that. Does
          > that mean that understanding lobha and all the other very very
          > prevalent akusala dhammas is all that is necessary? We don't have
          > to think about awarness at all? Can I just forget about "sati?"
          -----
          N: No, because just intellectual understanding of lobha etc. is not
          enough. Lobha has to be known as just a dhamma. Not by thinking about
          it. By awareness and direct understanding of its characteristic when
          it appears now. Always now. But first there has to be the first stage
          of insight: clear distinction between naama and ruupa, by direct
          understanding when they appear one at a time, now. We may be inclined
          to name lobha: there is lobha. But, as Acharn said, then there is
          still my lobha.
          ------
          > Ph: Why is sati important to understand when panna seems to be
          > enough? Is there always sati when there is panna, but not always
          > panna when there is sati?
          -----
          N: Right. Sati is important, it is awareness of the present moment.
          It assists pa~n~naa to understand the characteristic of the present
          moment. No need to think of that reality. Its characteristic is just
          realized. I am glad you liked Bhante Dhammadharo's sermon. We were
          very impressed at that time. I still hear his voice: serious and
          straight from his heart. The first part was on no 3, but perhaps you
          read it. He explained so well cause and effect. Akusala kamma may be
          a cause that we will not in the future be in a position to hear the
          Dhamma. And now we are so fortunate to be alive in this plane and
          listen more to the Dhamma. But the kusala Lodewijk accumulated is
          never lost, it is accumulated from citta to citta, from life to life.
          I like to remember his kusala citta.
          ------
          Nina.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • philip
          Hi Nina ... It assists panna to understand the characteristic of the present moment. I don t think I ve heard it put that way again, though I must have. What
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 2, 2012
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            Hi Nina
            > ------
            > > Ph: Why is sati important to understand when panna seems to be
            > > enough? Is there always sati when there is panna, but not always
            > > panna when there is sati?
            > -----
            > N: Right. Sati is important, it is awareness of the present moment.
            > It assists pa~n~naa to understand the characteristic of the present
            > moment.

            "It assists panna to understand the characteristic of the present moment." I don't think I've heard it put that way again, though I must have.

            What other dhammas "assist panna to understand the characteristic of the present moment." Of course the seven universal cetasikas and then all the other cetasikas that must be present for any moment of kusala. There are many.

            Is this why kusala is relatively rare? Because so many cetasikas are necessary for assisting in the arising of a kusala citta? Or is kusala rare simply because so much akusala has been accumulated?


            > No need to think of that reality. Its characteristic is just
            > realized. I am glad you liked Bhante Dhammadharo's sermon. We were
            > very impressed at that time. I still hear his voice: serious and
            > straight from his heart.

            Yes, I can heart it too. Very serious, sincere, but warm. I like the photo of him, looking so intently.


            > Akusala kamma may be
            > a cause that we will not in the future be in a position to hear the
            > Dhamma. And now we are so fortunate to be alive in this plane and
            > listen more to the Dhamma.

            It would be good if this message sunk deeper into my heart, so that there was more of a sense of urgency to avoid akusala. But it is not here now. It will probably return at some point, no telling when. I feel hints of it when I listen. I listened to Chapter 10 (?) of ADL, about the patisandhi citta, and birth in various realms, as I washed the dishes. I did feel a stirring of resolve to avoid bad deeds as I listened. I think that resolve is always lurking, there are accumulations for it to arise, I think it will. But absolutely no way to make it arise when there are not conditoins for it to arise.


            > But the kusala Lodewijk accumulated is
            > never lost, it is accumulated from citta to citta, from life to life.
            > I like to remember his kusala citta.

            I'm sure there is much for you to remember, although if we are strict we have to say we never know the others' citta, right? Even when Lodewijk performed some deed of dana for the monks or whatever, there could be lobha at times, mana, whatever. But there are safe assumptions based on the deed that there is kusala involved... I like what I wrote the other day, about your and Lodewijk's dana for each other, sharing the Dhamma, very true. Safe to assume that one is discussing Dhamma there is at least some or a lot of kusala involved. And that kusala accumulates, from citta to citta, from life to life. Like right now. Very encouraging!

            Phil
          • Nina van Gorkom
            Dear Phil, ... N: Because so much akusala has been accumulated, kusala has not yet become our nature. ... N: It means: just listen more. ... Nina. [Non-text
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 3, 2012
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              Dear Phil,
              Op 2-nov-2012, om 12:29 heeft philip het volgende geschreven:

              > What other dhammas "assist panna to understand the characteristic
              > of the present moment." Of course the seven universal cetasikas and
              > then all the other cetasikas that must be present for any moment of
              > kusala. There are many.
              >
              > Is this why kusala is relatively rare? Because so many cetasikas
              > are necessary for assisting in the arising of a kusala citta? Or is
              > kusala rare simply because so much akusala has been accumulated?
              ------
              N: Because so much akusala has been accumulated, kusala has not yet
              become our nature.
              --------
              > Ph: It would be good if this message sunk deeper into my heart, so
              > that there was more of a sense of urgency to avoid akusala. ....
              > But absolutely no way to make it arise when there are not
              > conditoins for it to arise.
              ------
              N: It means: just listen more.
              ------
              Nina.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • philip
              Hi Nina ... I see. That makes sense. Thanks. Phil
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 4, 2012
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                Hi Nina

                > > Is this why kusala is relatively rare? Because so many cetasikas
                > > are necessary for assisting in the arising of a kusala citta? Or is
                > > kusala rare simply because so much akusala has been accumulated?
                > ------
                > N: Because so much akusala has been accumulated, kusala has not yet
                > become our nature.
                > --------

                I see. That makes sense. Thanks.

                Phil
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