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[dsg] Re: Unborn and Undying Awareness [Existence & non-existence]

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  • jonoabb
    Hi Herman ... J: :-)) Yes, I know what you mean, but a couple of observations. The development of the path is not about chasing (or looking for) the things
    Message 1 of 98 , Oct 27, 2012
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      Hi Herman

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Jon,
      > ...
      > To me, the dhammas that are said to be the only real things, are actually
      > an idea, insofar as there is no experience of them, as singularities,
      > arising and ceasing one by one. If there was an experience of that, I
      > promise you, I would agree with you :-)
      > ===============

      J: :-))

      Yes, I know what you mean, but a couple of observations.

      The development of the path is not about chasing (or looking for) the things described in the texts as dhammas. It is about understanding the truth and reality of the present moment.

      In this regard, it is said that there are at the present moment things that have a specific, unalterable (and unchanging) characteristic that can be directly experienced (by panna).

      For example, the experiencing of visible object and the experiencing of audible object are universal experiences for all who have those faculties. We can talk about these experiencings and objects from direct, personal experience. Likewise we all know what attachment and aversion are because they have arisen so often.

      And when these things are arising/present they are not merely 'an idea'.

      As regards your point of no experience of dhammas as 'singularities', may I suggest that the fact that, for example, seeing and visible object, hearing and audible object always seem to co-arise and from the subjective perspective there is never one without the other, does not negate the possibility of them being separate dhammas, with completely different conditions for their arising.

      Furthermore, if the dhamma that we know as audible object was not a separate dhamma it would mean that sound could never arise in the world in the absence of hearing consciousness. Yet such a notion would seem to run counter to our general experience.

      Jon
    • Maipenrai Dhammasaro
      Good friends all, On this mere excerpt: So for me, dhamma is all three pitakas (though I m obviously not a ... Comments??? yours in Dhamma-vinaya, Chuck
      Message 98 of 98 , Jan 28, 2013
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        Good friends all,
        On this mere excerpt:> So for me, dhamma is all three pitakas (though I'm obviously not a
        > bhikkhu, so much of the vinaya is not applicable). And I figure if it
        > exists in there, it *could* be useful. The Theras seem to think so.As a former bhikkhu, I strongly suggest lay persons become familiar with the Vinaya-pitaka. Just the areas between the monk and the lay person... It will prevent many misunderstandings...
        Comments???
        yours in Dhamma-vinaya,
        Chuck (formerly phra dhammasaro)
        ............................ Rest deleted as requested ....................................................................................................................

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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