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Re: [dsg] Re: Life is a real test. was:Delisting announcement

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Hi Howard, thank you for your kind post and your concern. But you know, considerations of the Dhamma truly helped us. Of course it was a shock and I was
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 1, 2012
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      Hi Howard,
      thank you for your kind post and your concern. But you know,
      considerations of the Dhamma truly helped us. Of course it was a
      shock and I was worried about Lodewijk's health problems which are
      also caused by old age. We can learn from such events.
      This morning I heard a Thai recording, Kh Sujin was paraphrasing the
      Expositor about sati and asati. Considerations about birth, old age,
      sickness and death help us with a sense of urgency, not to be
      neglectful with the development of understanding. I have heard this
      often, but by events in life we experience ourselves this becomes
      more meaningful.
      In order to be free from the cycle sati and pa~n~naa should be
      developed again and again. There can be more chanda, wish-to-do, and
      viriya, the four right efforts. One can see more the disadvantages of
      akusala, preventing akusala that has not yet arisen. Sati must be
      aware, not coming to a halt, again and again. Not laying down the
      burden, not letting go of sati.
      I think this is a good exhortation.
      Nina.
      Op 30-jun-2012, om 17:54 heeft upasaka@... het volgende geschreven:

      > I'm sorry to hear of this. It was surely upsetting to both Lodewijk
      > and you. (I think you are a dear, loving couple.) Please wish
      > Lodewijk my
      > very best!



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Robert E
      Hi Nina. ... Thank you for sharing your personal story about this. It is a very good reminder that we can see that there are only dhammas when these kinds of
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 2, 2012
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        Hi Nina.

        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Sarah and Rob E,
        > Rob, I appreciate so much your reactions to my quote of Kh Sujin
        > about kusala. Your writing about it reminds me again and again.

        :-) I am glad - it was a very helpful quote!

        Rob E.:
        > > I'm really enjoying this discussion, and the quote above from K.
        > > Sujin is just wonderful - a great exposition of how kusala is
        > > actually helpful and can be seen to help others and reduce
        > > suffering when it is recognized.

        > ------
        > N: You can also find such reminders in her book about the
        > perfections. All kinds of kusala through body, speech and mind are
        > assisting the development of right understanding.
        >
        > Sarah gave a lovely reminder to Lodewijk after a severe test I want
        > to share. ...

        > ...but it's all still just seeing, hearing, thinking and so on...>
        > Sarah, we discussed this. Good to be reminded that we never know
        > conditions that make certain things happen. In the ultimate sense
        > there are just dhammas, seeing, hearing, thinking about lovely
        > dreams. Regrets are useless, best to have more understanding of any
        > reality now.

        Thank you for sharing your personal story about this. It is a very good reminder that we can see that there are only dhammas when these kinds of things happen. It really can take us out of the story, into the reality of this moment, and I think that is inherently less painful.

        Best,
        Rob E.

        - - - - - - - - - -
      • Nina van Gorkom
        Dear Rob E, ... N: You formultaed in these sentences the essence of the Dhamma. Our normal daily life consists of stories, this is so natural. Then we learn to
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 3, 2012
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          Dear Rob E,
          Op 2-jul-2012, om 19:48 heeft Robert E het volgende geschreven:

          > Thank you for sharing your personal story about this. It is a very
          > good reminder that we can see that there are only dhammas when
          > these kinds of things happen. It really can take us out of the
          > story, into the reality of this moment, and I think that is
          > inherently less painful.
          -------
          N: You formultaed in these sentences the essence of the Dhamma. Our
          normal daily life consists of stories, this is so natural. Then we
          learn to see through these stories: there are only dhammas. Indeed it
          helps to cope with difficult events, not taking them so personal.
          This is taught in the suttas all the time. That is why I find suttas
          very important and most helpful. They deal with common events and
          problems in daily life and help me to see what is really true.
          You formulated this so well in another post: <For those who see
          paramatha dhammas in a totally separate world with no relation at all
          to everyday actions and occurrences, it is impossible to make good
          sense of the suttas, in which the Buddha often talks about the
          conventional actions and results that we experience every day.
          Sometimes he also talks about the paramatha level and sometimes he
          talks somewhere inbetween. But all that he says relates to dhammas
          and to the path. It is a continuum of understanding, rather than a
          divided understanding.>
          -------
          Nina.






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Robert E
          Hi Nina. ... Hearing you say that back to me is very helpful to me too. It just makes a lot of sense. ... Yes, this also supports how I feel when I read some
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 4, 2012
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            Hi Nina.

            --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Rob E,
            > Op 2-jul-2012, om 19:48 heeft Robert E het volgende geschreven:
            >
            > > Thank you for sharing your personal story about this. It is a very
            > > good reminder that we can see that there are only dhammas when
            > > these kinds of things happen. It really can take us out of the
            > > story, into the reality of this moment, and I think that is
            > > inherently less painful.
            > -------
            > N: You formultaed in these sentences the essence of the Dhamma. Our
            > normal daily life consists of stories, this is so natural. Then we
            > learn to see through these stories: there are only dhammas. Indeed it
            > helps to cope with difficult events, not taking them so personal.

            Hearing you say that back to me is very helpful to me too. It just makes a lot of sense.

            > This is taught in the suttas all the time. That is why I find suttas
            > very important and most helpful. They deal with common events and
            > problems in daily life and help me to see what is really true.

            Yes, this also supports how I feel when I read some of the suttas - the way you put it is very good.

            > You formulated this so well in another post: <For those who see
            > paramatha dhammas in a totally separate world with no relation at all
            > to everyday actions and occurrences, it is impossible to make good
            > sense of the suttas, in which the Buddha often talks about the
            > conventional actions and results that we experience every day.
            > Sometimes he also talks about the paramatha level and sometimes he
            > talks somewhere inbetween. But all that he says relates to dhammas
            > and to the path. It is a continuum of understanding, rather than a
            > divided understanding.>

            Thank you, Nina. It is very good to talk to you about this.

            Best,
            Rob E.

            - - - - - - - - - - - -
          • sarah
            Dear Nina & all, ... ... S: That s very good. I think understanding leads to such fortitude and patience, patience with beings many kinds of faults . We see
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 5, 2012
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              Dear Nina & all,

              --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

              > >S: "Each moment in daily life there can be the practice of
              > > Dhamma..."
              > >
              > > There are tests all day, tests of whether there is kindness, help
              > > and understanding or whether lobha, dosa and moha win out again....
              > ------
              > N: Yes always things happening that are beyond control. What a test!
              > As to forgiving, I found this passage of pilgrimage so helpful about
              > the perfections Bodhisattas are accumulating: <"They constantly
              > arouse energy, having beings' welfare and happiness at heart. When
              > they have acquired heroic fortitude through supreme energy, they
              > become patient with beings' many kinds of faults....">
              ...
              S: That's very good. I think understanding leads to such fortitude and patience, patience with "beings' many kinds of faults". We see how all the paramis (perfections) work together.

              Metta

              Sarah
              =====
            • sarah
              Dear Nina (& Lodewijk & Lukas), ... S: Even when we make our plans, we know anything can happen. Dhammas are never in our control. It doesn t me we don t make
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 6, 2012
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                Dear Nina (& Lodewijk & Lukas),

                Thank you for mentioning the following:

                --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

                > Sarah gave a lovely reminder to Lodewijk after a severe test I want
                > to share.
                > Kh Sujin has plans to come to Europe and Lodewijk wanted to do his
                > utmost to have her and several friends here with us in the Hague. I
                > cautioned him since his health is fragile but he was very determined.
                > He had a beautiful plan with lots of Dhamma talk in our home and
                > luncheons. I became already excited seeing Kh Sujin and all friends,
                > but I also realized that this is lobha! Then he got sick and felt
                > that he had to cancel it, rather a shock.
                > Sarah wrote:
                > < She'll be most understanding. She'd also remind us to just
                > understand the dhammas now - no regrets! Anything can happen anytime,
                > but it's all still just seeing, hearing, thinking and so on...>
                > Sarah, we discussed this. Good to be reminded that we never know
                > conditions that make certain things happen. In the ultimate sense
                > there are just dhammas, seeing, hearing, thinking about lovely
                > dreams. Regrets are useless, best to have more understanding of any
                > reality now.
                > -------

                S: Even when we make our plans, we know anything can happen. Dhammas are never in our control. It doesn't me we don't make plans, but there can be awareness anytime of thinking, attachment, seeing, visible object.....just ordinary dhammas.

                Lodewijk was being so kind, thinking of everyone's welfare. Sometimes we just can't manage everything we'd like to and it's time for equanimity. We can't stop having regrets but when there's awareness, it's apparent that these too are just moments of thinking with aversion. The Dhamma is so very practical - it always comes back to this moment.

                Now Lukas is making arrangements for Ajahn in Poland - we just do our best, thinking of others' welfare, but we never know how things will work out. Present understanding is so very precious.

                Metta

                Sarah
                =======
              • colette_aube
                Hi Sarah, ... BALDERDASH! UTTER NON-SENSE! NO SIR! The entire problem is built on the foundation of CONTROL Dhammas, as you were saying, DO NOT MAKE PLANS
                Message 7 of 21 , Jul 6, 2012
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                  Hi Sarah,

                  > S: Even when we make our plans, we know anything can happen. Dhammas are never in our control. It doesn't mean we don't make plans, but there can be awareness anytime of thinking, attachment, seeing, visible object.....just ordinary dhammas.
                  >
                  > Lodewijk was being so kind, thinking of everyone's welfare. Sometimes we just can't manage everything we'd like to and it's time for equanimity. We can't stop having regrets but when there's awareness, it's apparent that these too are just moments of thinking with aversion. The Dhamma is so very practical - it always comes back to this moment.
                  ----------

                  BALDERDASH!

                  UTTER NON-SENSE!

                  NO SIR! The entire problem is built on the foundation of "CONTROL" Dhammas, as you were saying, DO NOT MAKE PLANS but just as true DHARMAS ARE ONLY A GUIDE THAT POINTS IN A DIRECTION, DHARMAS ARE NOT RULES IN THEMSELVES i.e. CITTA.

                  As long as the foundation exists, upon which a mind delusions or hallucinates an aspect of "CONTROL" then failure will always follow. This failure will leave a taste in the mouth of the victim and thus is created our good friend THE HUNGRY GHOST. Which pocket did I put that in? Am I actually sitting on CRAVING and DESIRE? Sure hope not since I'd rather leave those professionals in Bangkok doing what they do best <....>

                  People have to consciously acknowledge the existence of their desire to CONTROL and to BE IN CONTROL, especially in this time, in this new world that we are experiencing TOGETHER.

                  toodles,
                  colette
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