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Re: grieve of beloved ones

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  • Robert E
    Hi Lukas, and Rob. Throwing in my two cents, I agree. It is more important to survive and get into a better situation than to worry about picking and choosing
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 18 2:37 PM
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      Hi Lukas, and Rob.
      Throwing in my two cents, I agree. It is more important to survive and get into a better situation than to worry about picking and choosing the right or wrong solution. If I were in that situation I would do anything and everything that was possible - all the programs that are open to me to solve the problem. Get on the waiting list for all of them, and then if it is an emergency because I am literally dying from drugs and neglect, go to the damned hospital and check in and get emergency service. Do what's necessary and take care of yourself.

      Best,
      Rob E.

      - - - - - - - - - - -

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "rjkjp1" <rjkjp1@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear lukas,
      > is it such a big problem to go on a methadone program?
      > I have a friend in new zelaand who i knew for 30 plus years. he has been on that program all the time, and is actaully quite proud that he is now the longest, according to him, continually on the program. he still functions, has a wife etc.
      > robert
      >
      > --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Lukas" <szmicio@> wrote:
      > >
      > > friends,
      > >
      > > Also I have nowhere to go for Dhamma shelter, as I used to do that before when 'big problems'. I was blocked/banned at vipassana meditation in Goenka tradition for at least half a year. I have nowhere to go and cant stay in town I live cause , bad friends alcohol and drugs.
      > >
      > > Best wishes
      > > Lukas
      > >
      > > P.s
      > > 2 weeks ago I was in my shrink, who leads me many years. The best, private shrink and the more expensive.Working in addicition and mental disease field. That was the first time I tell him the truth that I am addicted to opiats since 2 and half year. He just look on me and seemed to have helpless face expression. And he told me: 'Mr Lukas, I cant help you'. 'I want to be normal again' - I told, he answered: 'Pls prepere a pigama and slippers. I will add you to the waiting list for mental institution for 2 weeks detox and than we start to look for you a rehabilitation center and this will be 2 years in closed facility or we can try something new: A metadon programme' He said he will also add me for the waiting list for this program and this one dont need detoxification or closed facility. But it's like taking for the whole life daily dosage of very weak opiat. No other ways. He didnt even charge me for a visit, cause he understand how hard it is and even the will to start treatment is a big thing. Beginning. That was 2 weeks agot and shall call him every2 day to confirm that I have my place on list. But I didnt do it. And I really don wish to do it anymore. Weak.
      > >
      > >
      > > > L. left me. I cant find strenght to live. Only drugs can bring me relief . I know that I will end bad.
      > >
      >
    • rjkjp1
      Dear Lukas You know about Sarakani the ex-bhikkhu, who became an alcoholic. When he died, with alcohol still on his breath, the Buddha said he was now a deva
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 18 9:24 PM
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        Dear Lukas
        You know about Sarakani the ex-bhikkhu, who became an alcoholic.
        When he died, with alcohol still on his breath, the Buddha said he was now a deva and a sotapanna.
        Monks were outraged that he could have attained. But he had confidence and understanding of Dhamma, and attained at the time of his death.

        That the Goenka people have banned you I would take as an auspicious sign.
        robert


        > > >
        > > > Also I have nowhere to go for Dhamma shelter, as I used to do that before when 'big problems'. I was blocked/banned at vipassana meditation in Goenka tradition for at least half a year. I have nowhere to go and cant stay in town I live cause , bad friends alcohol and drugs.
        > > >
        > > > Best wishes
        > > > Lukas
        > > >
        > > > P.s
        > > > 2 weeks ago I was in my shrink, who leads me many years. The best, private shrink and the more expensive.Working in addicition and mental disease field. That was the first time I tell him the truth that I am addicted to opiats since 2 and half year. He just look on me and seemed to have helpless face expression. And he told me: 'Mr Lukas, I cant help you'. 'I want to be normal again' - I told, he answered: 'Pls prepere a pigama and slippers. I will add you to the waiting list for mental institution for 2 weeks detox and than we start to look for you a rehabilitation center and this will be 2 years in closed facility or we can try something new: A metadon programme' He said he will also add me for the waiting list for this program and this one dont need detoxification or closed facility. But it's like taking for the whole life daily dosage of very weak opiat. No other ways. He didnt even charge me for a visit, cause he understand how hard it is and even the will to start treatment is a big thing. Beginning. That was 2 weeks agot and shall call him every2 day to confirm that I have my place on list. But I didnt do it. And I really don wish to do it anymore. Weak.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > > L. left me. I cant find strenght to live. Only drugs can bring me relief . I know that I will end bad.
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • sarah
        Dear Lukas, We just had quite a long chat and you asked me to write something about it on DSG to remind you of the points and program we discussed. You
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 19 1:30 AM
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          Dear Lukas,

          We just had quite a long chat and you asked me to write something about it on DSG to remind you of the points and "program" we discussed.

          You started off by saying how unhappy you were because Luraya had "left" you. It seems she hadn't realised how "bad" your friends were or how serious your addictions were. She also thought that if your "Dhamma way" was right, it should help you more.

          I suggested that Luraya clearly really cares for you and has tried her very best to help, but at this stage it's too much for her and she needs to return to the support of her own friends and family whilst you get the urgent medical treatment you need. You wanted to phone her straight after our call and I suggested that you should be understanding rather than demanding of Luraya. Instead of crying and begging her to return, better to thank her for her wonderful friendship and care. Start the methadone treatment or whatever treatment you and your doctor decide on and then let Luraya know what you're doing. Be brave.

          In the end, we all have to go it alone, alone with each citta now. I mentioned how an alcoholic, a diabetic, an epileptic or anyone else with a health problem has to get the treatment - one day at a time. If one ends up taking medicine for life, so be it. There can still be the growth of understanding at any time at all.

          Needing care and treatment doesn't me one is a "bad" person - we all need treatment and care - just different accumulations, different problems in life. As Rob K's example shows, someone can be an alcoholic (or a murderer) even, but still develop the insight and become enlightened. We all know you have a lot of confidence in the Dhamma and it is the Dhamma that will really assist during this difficult time. How many difficult times or "humps" have we gone through in samsara, life after life? Countless - like the tears in the ocean, we've wept so much.

          I suggested that during your treatment, you need to keep away from "bad" company and if there is any real emergency, such as when you know you're about to take the drugs, just get yourself to the emergency department as Ken H suggested or to your doctor or a counselling centre at the university. You also mentioned not going to your classes because you feel so weak and I suggested that you need to get outside first thing every morning before you reach for the coffee and drugs. Find out about morning yoga classes at the university or swimming or walking or tai chi - some gentle exercise where you spend time with people who are not drinking or taking drugs, but doing something healthy. I think this would help a lot. After that, you might find you can make it to the uni classes or library.

          We also talked about the computer project you're doing with Pt. You are now both the "DSG technical moderators". You're going to be assisting Pt with his programming projects. He tells me you have great skills in this area and you can help us a lot with UP and so on. Spend a little time each day on these different projects.

          Finally, we just touched on the topic of your family. You mentioned that you've quarrelled badly and they don't understand you. Like Pt mentioned before, I think that these kinds of problems are very common when we're in our 20s, but sooner or later we have to resolve them and we have to learn to show the respect to our parents that they deserve, however difficult the relationship is. I'm sure they must really care about you and be concerned for your welfare. It takes time, I know, so just keep it in mind.

          By being the understanding person, understanding others' weaknesses and foibles and difficulties, we think less about ourselves and our problems. Nina quoted a helpful text from K.Sujin's book on Meritorious Deeds recently. There was a passage which struck me about how when there is more metta, there is less unhappiness all round. Here's the passage:

          "Sujin: At the moment the citta is coarse it means that there is no
          happiness. Even though a person does not yet give expression to
          rudeness through body or speech, he is not able to make someone else
          whom he meets or who is close happy. This shows us that a person
          whose citta is coarse has no mettaa, loving kindness, for someone
          else. Because when the citta is coarse, a person cannot be intent on
          making someone else happy, or on giving assistance or helping him so
          that he is free from distress. If the citta has a high degree of
          coarseness there will be behaviour and speech which is not polite,
          not gentle, without thoughtfulness and kindness. He will cause
          unhappiness and distress to someone else who has to face such
          behaviour and speech.

          It is evident that one hurts or harms someone else and causes his
          unhappiness by different kinds of akusala kamma, such as killing him
          or causing harm to his body, taking away his possessions, sexual
          misbehaviour with regard to his wife or children and other evil
          deeds. Even unwholesome deeds and unwholesome speech of a lesser
          degree which originate from the citta which is harsh are bound to
          disturb the happiness of other people. If someone has mettaa for
          others and if he trains himself in politeness and gentleness, he will
          lessen the strength of the defilement of dosa, aversion, the reality
          which is harsh. Courtesy and gentleness are wholesome qualities which
          are included in siila, because kusala siila, wholesome moral conduct,
          subdues and eliminates the defilements which condition evil deeds by
          body and speech."

          S: I found this full of helpful reminders. We all need to hear Dhamma reminders again and again. I also suggested that when you feel tired, you might spend an hour a day listening to the recordings of discussions with Sujin and spend some time here every day reading and discussing posts. You were worried about what you could or could not say and I stressed that we're your friends and we wish to give you support - so just say and discuss what you like. If you want to mention your medical condition or Luraya, it doesn't matter at all. We're your friends.

          Lukas, get the treatment you urgently need. You wouldn't advise a diabetic to delay his insulin injections and in the same way, we urge you not to delay getting the methadone or other treatment your doctor recommends. We know you're scared and feeling lonely, but once you get on top of the addiction problems (and the side effects you mentioned which are causing serious complications), the sooner you'll begin to feel more at ease and good friends like Luraya and everyone here will be able to offer more support.

          Let us know how it goes.

          With metta

          Sarah
          =======
        • Lukas
          Dear Robert ... L: Robert can you explain what u mean? Best wishes Lukas p.s What about sadness,grieve, weak bodily feelings, sorrow and mental unpleasant
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 19 6:12 AM
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            Dear Robert

            > That the Goenka people have banned you I would take as an auspicious sign.

            L: Robert can you explain what u mean?

            Best wishes
            Lukas

            p.s
            What about sadness,grieve, weak bodily feelings, sorrow and mental unpleasant feeling? I feel them a lot recently. Any way out of it?

            Best wishes
            Lukas
          • rjkjp1
            Hi lukas, If the goenka crowd is thinking that what they are doing is vipassana, but it turns out it is wrong path, then you are lucky to be away from them.
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 19 8:53 AM
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              Hi lukas,
              If the goenka crowd is thinking that what they are doing is vipassana, but it turns out it is wrong path, then you are lucky to be away from them.

              Unpleasant feeling is just unpleasant feeling. Think about it, these feelings are conditioned to arise.

              Usually we make it worse though because we have the wish/belief/idea that they would not come. Its a resistance against what is actually happening, a struggling against reality in a way.
              Robert

              --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Lukas" <szmicio@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Robert
              >
              > > That the Goenka people have banned you I would take as an auspicious sign.
              >
              > L: Robert can you explain what u mean?
              >
              > Best wishes
              > Lukas
              >
              > p.s
              > What about sadness,grieve, weak bodily feelings, sorrow and mental unpleasant feeling? I feel them a lot recently. Any way out of it?
              >
              > Best wishes
              > Lukas
              >
            • Lukas
              Dear RobK ... L: Yes, that s why I ve decided to not taking anymore courses. Just a lot lobha, lobha, lobha. concentrations... but life is so simple. No one
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 19 2:33 PM
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                Dear RobK

                > If the goenka crowd is thinking that what they are doing is vipassana, but it turns out it is wrong path, then you are lucky to be away from them.

                L: Yes, that's why I've decided to not taking anymore courses. Just a lot lobha, lobha, lobha. concentrations... but life is so simple. No one needs to be like this or like that. Just Dhamma. Not looking for anything.

                > Unpleasant feeling is just unpleasant feeling. Think about it, these feelings are conditioned to arise.
                >
                > Usually we make it worse though because we have the wish/belief/idea that they would not come. Its a resistance against what is actually happening, a struggling against reality in a way.

                L: Very good reminder. I will be remember it.

                Best wishes
                Lukas
              • truth_aerator
                Dear all, ... Why is it wrong to engage in meritorious activity (meditation), and yet is fine with engaging in akusala activity? Maybe this is the reason why
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 19 3:07 PM
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                  Dear all,


                  >If the goenka crowd is thinking that what they are doing is >vipassana, but it turns out it is wrong path, then you are lucky to >be away from them.
                  >============================================


                  Why is it wrong to engage in meritorious activity (meditation), and yet is fine with engaging in akusala activity?

                  Maybe this is the reason why akusala arises again and again. One feels fine in engaging in it and yet when it comes to doing kusala -
                  "no way! Its just self trying to control realities! No understanding!".


                  >Unpleasant feeling is just unpleasant feeling. Think about it, >these feelings are conditioned to arise.
                  >==============


                  If one would truly treat it that way then meditation would be an easiest thing "to do".

                  >Usually we make it worse though because we have the wish/belief/idea >that they would not come. Its a resistance against what is actually >happening, a struggling against reality in a way.
                  >==========

                  As I understand it: alcohol, drugs, daydreaming, workaholism (if not financially required) etc, is an escape from facing things as they really are. One resists the unsatisfactoriness of present moment and tries to get somewhere else.

                  "No understanding" in my opinion is trying to alter the dukkha of life by such escapes. IMHO, talking about "no self! no self!" and yet acting as if one is full of belief in a self is only sign of right words rather than real understanding achieved only by following Dhamma. Words that are not backed by action (in body, speech and mind) are empty sounds.

                  If one truly understands no Self, then meditation would be the easiest thing to do. One could sit down and drop into deep state with no problem. Why no problem? Because one isn't disturbed by "I want this or that! I don't want this! I want something other than this ache, pain, boredom, etc". "I want" is expression of sensual desire, restlessness and can easily lead to dislike (dosa) of present moment when it becomes "I want to feel good rather than bad". etc.


                  With best wishes,

                  Alex
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