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Re: 'Give me a quote' (and I'll ignore it): Greatest Hits.

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  • sarah
    Dear Rob E, ... ... S: Yes, seems like that - lots of conventional stories about this kind of thing, like the story of Soreyya I gave recently*. In fact,
    Message 1 of 1137 , Feb 29, 2012
      Dear Rob E,

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Robert E" <epsteinrob@...> wrote:

      > > S: The original akusala kamma patha involved in the murderous intentions and acts will bring its result by way or vipaka - an unhappy rebirth and akusala vipaka in future life/lives. I agree that when reading the texts, there often seems to be a 'link'. In the future lives, there may be the akusala vipaka through the body-sense and so on when attacked/murdered which seems to correspond to the original deed. In fact, the death consciousness, the cuti citta, can only be a result of the person's own deed - the same akusala kamma patha that conditioned the unhappy rebirth in that future life.
      > > ....
      >R: I guess it makes sense that a certain kind of of akusala kamma patha would naturally lead to a related-seeming vipaka that is "like in kind" as the type of akusala cetana that was originally generated. It's sort of like putting out certain sorts of forces and then they will shape the resultant vipaka in a similar way.
      S: Yes, seems like that - lots of 'conventional' stories about this kind of thing, like the story of Soreyya I gave recently*. In fact, only a Buddha can understand the intricacies of kamma and vipaka, so not much point in speculating too much about this. What we know is that the seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching of pleasant and unpleasant objects now is the result of past kamma and have confidence that it is the kusala/akusala in 'reaction' to such experiences that perpetuates the cycle. Hence we read about the 3 rounds of vipaka vata, kilesa vata and kamma vata.



      *Soreyya. A setthiputta of Soreyya. Once, when he and a friend with a large
      retinue were driving out of the city to bathe, he saw Mahaa Kaccaayanaadjusting
      his robe before entering the city for alms. Soreyya saw the Elder's body, and
      wished that he could make him his wife or that his wife's body might become in
      colour like the Elder's. Immediately Soreyya turned into a woman, and, hiding
      from his companions, went with a caravan bound for Takkasilaa. Arrived at
      Takkasilaa, he became the wife of the Treasurer of that city and had two sons.
      He had already two sons in Soreyya, born to him before his transformation.

      Some time after, he saw his former friend driving in a carriage through
      Takkasilaa, and, sending a slave woman to him, invited him to the house and
      entertained him. The friend was unable to recognize him till he revealed the
      truth. Thereupon they both returned to Soreyya and invited Mahaa Kaccaayana to a
      meal. Soreyya fell at his feet, confessed his fault, and asked for forgiveness.
      When the Elder pardoned him, he once more became a man. He entered the Order
      under the Elder and went with him to Saavatthi. There people having heard his
      story worried him with questions. He therefore retired into solitude, and,
      developing insight, became an arahant. Before that, when people asked him which
      of his children he loved best, he would say: "Those to whom I gave birth while a
      woman"; but after attaining arahantship he would say: "My affections are set on
      no one." DhA.i.324ff.
    • Robert E
      Hi Sarah. ... I see what you mean, that it s better to understand kusala as strictly opposite from any kind of akusala. ... That makes sense - it is more clear
      Message 1137 of 1137 , Jun 7, 2012
        Hi Sarah.

        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "sarah" <sarahprocterabbott@...> wrote:

        > S: I think we need to be careful about considering kusala of any kind as the "middle" between any kinds of akusala. Understanding and equanimity are the "turning away" from attachment of all kinds and the aversion and so on which it brings.

        I see what you mean, that it's better to understand kusala as strictly opposite from any kind of akusala.

        > The same applies to the Middle Way, the 8fold Path, which is the turning away from all kinds of wrong view under the banners of eternalism and annihilationism, all wrapped up in self-view.

        That makes sense - it is more clear than seeing "The Middle Way" as somehow floating around in the middle of akusala.


        > > >S: There's a part of the audio I've been transcribing parts of where a friend talks about all the tumult in her life, all the difficulties. K.Sujin's response is not one of feeling sorry, but "just passing dhammas". I may add it tomorrow.
        > >
        > >R: I could see how the view that difficulties are "just passing dhammas" would tend to promote equanimity too - since there is no need or possibility to do anything about what is happening.
        > ...
        > S: Exactly. This is why reflection on kamma and its results may also condition equanimity. Whatever comes, comes by conditions. The best thing is always the present understanding.

        Very nice.

        Rob E.

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