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Re: What I heard.

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  • sarah
    Dear Nina, Phil & Lukas, ... .... S: This reminds me of the part of the recording that caught my attention as mentioned to Phil. I listened to it again: KS:
    Message 1 of 35 , Dec 22, 2011
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      Dear Nina, Phil & Lukas,

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

      > Kh Sujin said that a talk on viriya (viriya katha) helps right energy
      > for awareness now while there is still an opportunity for awareness.
      > When there is rebirth in an unhappy plane this is very difficult,
      > perhaps impossible. She said: be aware just a little, be aware even
      > though there is not yet clear understanding. Just go on being aware,
      > this is a condition for the arising of pa~n~naa later on.
      > N: I found this encouraging, not worrying about the degree of
      > understanding, or worrying about it that sati is so weak. It can be
      > accumulated little by little.
      > She said that we are still in human life, not in hell. We should not
      > waste our life in being forgetful.
      S: This reminds me of the part of the recording that caught my attention as mentioned to Phil. I listened to it again:

      KS: "When the panna develops on and on one can see that everything's so meaningless when awareness does not arise - only thinking thinking, thinking about the past reality which appears as nimitta or sign of reality only. So only the moment of being aware of reality has some meaning .... the other moments past completely and only the signs are left."

      S:She then goes on to talk about the 3 kinds of cariya, behaviour of citta:
      a) vi~n~naana cariya (behaviour of consciousness), b) a~naana cariya (behaviour of unknowing) c) ~naana cariya (behaviour of wisdom - pa~n~naa which can experience reality directly)

      KS: "So in the Patisambhiddamagga - vi~n~naana cariya, a~naana cariya and ~naana cariya. Sariputta just stressed 3 words. The vi~nnaana cariya are the moments of vipaaka ahetuka. For example when one is born one cannot escape from moments of seeing, hearing, smelling. They have to arise - no one can avoid them - and after that a~naana cariya, akusala comng all the time. No need to talk about other kinds of kusala [S: kusala other than satipatthana] because it's exactly the same like other things - just arise and pass, nothing left. Only the moment of understanding of that reality which appears is ~naana cariya. Even right now, when there is no awareness, there's no meaning at all."

      S: K.Sujin continues to talk about how essential is is for theoretical understanding of the Path to be "really well, firmly established otherwise there's always no awareness at all". If there's an idea of following any practise of doing anything in particular to have satipatthana arise, then it indicates the theoretical understanding is not firmly established.

      I like this reminder too:

      KS: "Always thinking, just thinking - taking reality which has gone so very seriously as something (which) stays, permanently, all the time. So in one's life, no matter it's short or long, the most valuable moment is the understanding of reality as it is. That's all, because it is the absolute reality. No story concerning, no thinking about realities as something permanent and (which) stays."

      Jon mentions that still while we live, we have to have the other stories.

      KS: " Yes, but what about the understanding? We cannot stop taking the story out of realities, but the development of understanding can understand each moment as a reality, not self, otherwise there is no way to eradicate the idea of self and wrong view. "

      Jon: "in that case what understanding would see if it were more fully developed would be a lot of thinking. a lot of the moments of the day are just thinking."

      KS: "Yes, it doesn't mean we have to stop or try to stop (thinking). it's wrong because that is done by 'I' again. The 'I ' is always there, just want something for oneself. But actually it's like other moments, just arises and falls away, nothing is left and that which has gone, never comes back at all. Each is the new one conditioned by paccaya. One can see the different levels of understanding - theoretically understanding about realities, talking about realities, and the development of understanding with direct awareness and the penetration of the true nature of reality as it is, as just what we keep on talking about. Like 'dhamma, dhamma, dhamma now' but it does not appear as dhamma when sati does not arise. So we just talk about khandha again, about ruupa khandha - how all types of ruupa are ruupa khandha, but what about this one? Whether it's the ruupa khandha which is seen, the ruupa khandha which is heard, the ruupa khandha which is touched - just in a moment so fast, arising and falling away."

      S: K.Sujin goes on to discuss how it has to be the well established theoretical understanding, sacca ~naana which conditions the direct undersanding.

      If anyone would like to listen to this piece (and more), it can be heard at the very beginning of the following audio to be found at the link below:

      scroll down to: Kaeng Krajaan (Thailand), September 2006


    • Nina van Gorkom
      Dear Phil, ... N: Thanks for quoting. When going over Poland discussions I also keep on wanting to transcribe, but not enough time to do all. They have so many
      Message 35 of 35 , Oct 18, 2012
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        Dear Phil,
        Op 18-okt-2012, om 8:08 heeft philip het volgende geschreven:

        > They are all so great that I would like to repost them all but
        > here is one I especially like.
        N: Thanks for quoting. When going over Poland discussions I also keep
        on wanting to transcribe, but not enough time to do all. They have so
        many reminders about the present reality. Too much paperwork, bank
        notes, etc. And arranging all by myself the journey to Thailand with
        the necessary annulation insurance.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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