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Cetasikas study corner, restlessness.

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear friends, some quotes from Vis. Ch XIV, 93 and Tiika: As to restlessness or agitation, this is a translation of uddhacca. Uddhacca is not what we mean by
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 19, 2011
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      Dear friends,

      some quotes from Vis. Ch XIV, 93 and Tiika:

      As to restlessness or agitation, this is a translation of uddhacca.
      Uddhacca is not what we mean by the conventional term agitation, or
      excitement. Restlessness arises with each akusala citta and at that
      moment there is forgetfulness of kusala, there is not the steadiness
      and calm of kusala. Since akusala cittas arise more often than kusala
      cittas, there is restlessness time and again.
      The Tiika of Visuddhimagga Ch XIV, 93, describes udhacca as lack of
      calm or distraction (vikkhepo).

      *******
      Text Vis.: (xlii) 'Agitation' is agitatedness.
      ----------
      Text Vis.: It has the characteristic of disquiet, like water whipped
      by the wind.
      --------
      N: The Tiika uses here the terms disquiet and impure,
      appasannabhaava. Akusala citta that is always accompanied by
      agitation is not pure.
      -----------
      Text Vis.: Its function is unsteadiness, like a flag or banner
      whipped by the wind.
      ----------
      N: The Tiika explains that it has the function of shaking (calana).
      This is a term describing the unsteadfastness of uddhacca.
      ---------
      Text Vis.: It is manifested as turmoil, like ashes flung by pelting
      with stones.
      ---------
      N: Turmoil or disquiet (bhantatta) is explained by the Tiika as: in
      the way of reeling about.
      --------
      Text Vis.:
      Its proximate cause is unwise attention to mental disquiet. It should
      be regarded as distraction of consciousness.
      --------
      N: Unwise attention (ayoniso manaasikaara) is the proximate cause of
      all kinds of akusala.
      The Tiika adds to mental disquiet (avuupasama) that the object (that
      is experienced) has become the condition for disquiet.
      When akusala citta arises it experiences an object in the unwholesome
      way. At that moment there is ignorance that does not know the true
      nature of that object and uddhacca which is restless or agitated
      about that object.
      -------
      Conclusion:

      The citta and accompanying cetasikas are conditioned by uddhacca,
      they are all restless and distracted, forgetful of kusala.
      It is often said with regard to a cetasika that this dhamma itself
      is of such or such quality, and that it also makes the accompanying
      dhammas in that way. Citta and cetasikas that arise together
      condition one another. When akusala citta arises it is accompanied by
      akusala cetasikas, and these support it in the unwholesome way. The
      citta lacks the support of the sobhana cetasikas such as confidence,
      calm, wieldiness and balance, it cannot apply itself to daana, siila,
      samatha or vipassanaa.
      The strong similes that are used for the explanation of the nature of
      uddhacca remind us of its danger. As we have seen, it is as unsteady
      as water or a flag whipped by the wind, like ashes flung by pelting
      with stones. It is turmoil in the way of reeling about.
      Restlessness forms a pair with kukkuccha, worry, and it is one of the
      five hindrances.
      Restlessness arises innumerable times a day, but we do not notice it.
      It arises with cittas rooted in lobha, with cittas rooted in dosa and
      cittas which have moha as their only root.
      When one feels calm there may be subtle clinging to calm, and then
      there is uddhacca, agitation. There can be agitation with indifferent
      feeling. Akusala citta may be accompanied by indifferent feeling, and
      at that moment there is also uddhacca.
      Ignorance always arises together with uddhacca and it darkens its
      true nature.
      Only the arahat has eradicated uddhacca.

      *****
      Nina.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lukas
      Dear Nina, Is uddhacca the opposite of sati? uddhacca seems to be not steady, forgetful of object when sati is non-forgetful, does not run way from its object.
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 19, 2011
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        Dear Nina,
        Is uddhacca the opposite of sati? uddhacca seems to be not steady, forgetful of object when sati is non-forgetful, does not run way from its object.

        Best wishes
        Lukas

        --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear friends,
        >
        > some quotes from Vis. Ch XIV, 93 and Tiika:
        >
        > As to restlessness or agitation, this is a translation of uddhacca.
        > Uddhacca is not what we mean by the conventional term agitation, or
        > excitement. Restlessness arises with each akusala citta and at that
        > moment there is forgetfulness of kusala, there is not the steadiness
        > and calm of kusala. Since akusala cittas arise more often than kusala
        > cittas, there is restlessness time and again.
        > The Tiika of Visuddhimagga Ch XIV, 93, describes udhacca as lack of
        > calm or distraction (vikkhepo).
        >
        > *******
        > Text Vis.: (xlii) 'Agitation' is agitatedness.
        > ----------
        > Text Vis.: It has the characteristic of disquiet, like water whipped
        > by the wind.
        > --------
        > N: The Tiika uses here the terms disquiet and impure,
        > appasannabhaava. Akusala citta that is always accompanied by
        > agitation is not pure.
        > -----------
        > Text Vis.: Its function is unsteadiness, like a flag or banner
        > whipped by the wind.
        > ----------
        > N: The Tiika explains that it has the function of shaking (calana).
        > This is a term describing the unsteadfastness of uddhacca.
        > ---------
        > Text Vis.: It is manifested as turmoil, like ashes flung by pelting
        > with stones.
        > ---------
        > N: Turmoil or disquiet (bhantatta) is explained by the Tiika as: in
        > the way of reeling about.
        > --------
        > Text Vis.:
        > Its proximate cause is unwise attention to mental disquiet. It should
        > be regarded as distraction of consciousness.
        > --------
        > N: Unwise attention (ayoniso manaasikaara) is the proximate cause of
        > all kinds of akusala.
        > The Tiika adds to mental disquiet (avuupasama) that the object (that
        > is experienced) has become the condition for disquiet.
        > When akusala citta arises it experiences an object in the unwholesome
        > way. At that moment there is ignorance that does not know the true
        > nature of that object and uddhacca which is restless or agitated
        > about that object.
        > -------
        > Conclusion:
        >
        > The citta and accompanying cetasikas are conditioned by uddhacca,
        > they are all restless and distracted, forgetful of kusala.
        > It is often said with regard to a cetasika that this dhamma itself
        > is of such or such quality, and that it also makes the accompanying
        > dhammas in that way. Citta and cetasikas that arise together
        > condition one another. When akusala citta arises it is accompanied by
        > akusala cetasikas, and these support it in the unwholesome way. The
        > citta lacks the support of the sobhana cetasikas such as confidence,
        > calm, wieldiness and balance, it cannot apply itself to daana, siila,
        > samatha or vipassanaa.
        > The strong similes that are used for the explanation of the nature of
        > uddhacca remind us of its danger. As we have seen, it is as unsteady
        > as water or a flag whipped by the wind, like ashes flung by pelting
        > with stones. It is turmoil in the way of reeling about.
        > Restlessness forms a pair with kukkuccha, worry, and it is one of the
        > five hindrances.
        > Restlessness arises innumerable times a day, but we do not notice it.
        > It arises with cittas rooted in lobha, with cittas rooted in dosa and
        > cittas which have moha as their only root.
        > When one feels calm there may be subtle clinging to calm, and then
        > there is uddhacca, agitation. There can be agitation with indifferent
        > feeling. Akusala citta may be accompanied by indifferent feeling, and
        > at that moment there is also uddhacca.
        > Ignorance always arises together with uddhacca and it darkens its
        > true nature.
        > Only the arahat has eradicated uddhacca.
        >
        > *****
        > Nina.
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Nina van Gorkom
        Dear Lukas, ... N: There is absence of the calm of kusala citta. Each kusala citta is accompanied by calm, passaddhi, and also by sati, and many other sobhana
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 20, 2011
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          Dear Lukas,
          Op 19-nov-2011, om 18:21 heeft Lukas het volgende geschreven:

          > Is uddhacca the opposite of sati? uddhacca seems to be not steady,
          > forgetful of object when sati is non-forgetful, does not run way
          > from its object.
          -------
          N: There is absence of the calm of kusala citta. Each kusala citta is
          accompanied by calm, passaddhi, and also by sati, and many other
          sobhana cetasikas. Akusala citta with uddhacca lacks the calm and
          balance (tatramajjhattataa) of kusala citta. It is forgetful of
          kusala, and thus there is the inability to perform daana, siila or
          bhaavanaa.

          -------
          Nina.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • upasaka@aol.com
          Hi, Nina (and Lukas) - In a message dated 11/20/2011 4:29:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, vangorko@xs4all.nl writes: Dear Lukas, ... N: There is absence of
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 20, 2011
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            Hi, Nina (and Lukas) -

            In a message dated 11/20/2011 4:29:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            vangorko@... writes:

            Dear Lukas,
            Op 19-nov-2011, om 18:21 heeft Lukas het volgende geschreven:

            > Is uddhacca the opposite of sati? uddhacca seems to be not steady,
            > forgetful of object when sati is non-forgetful, does not run way
            > from its object.
            -------
            N: There is absence of the calm of kusala citta. Each kusala citta is
            accompanied by calm, passaddhi, and also by sati, and many other
            sobhana cetasikas. Akusala citta with uddhacca lacks the calm and
            balance (tatramajjhattataa) of kusala citta. It is forgetful of
            kusala, and thus there is the inability to perform daana, siila or
            bhaavanaa.
            ---------------------------------------------
            HCW:
            So, uddhacca consists of some degree, from slight (like minor
            disturbance or distraction) to great (such as extreme excitement), of turmoil, like
            the roiling of water, which interferes with or even entirely blocks calm
            and clarity, yes?
            As an aside, I've noted that as regards meditating, while sloth &
            torpor are more characteristic hindrances of mine, they are far less disruptive
            to the process than uddhacca. More generally, this being a greater
            impediment (of uddhacca's as compared to thina-middha's) is the case for me, I
            find, on any occasion for which attention is important to be maintained.
            --------------------------------------------



            -------
            Nina.
            ===============================
            With metta,
            Howard


            Seamless Interdependence

            /A change in anything is a change in everything/

            (Anonymous)



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Nina van Gorkom
            Hi Howard, ... N: There are many degrees of each akusala dhamma and thus also of uddhacca. I would not think of uddhacca in isolation of the other akusala
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 20, 2011
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              Hi Howard,
              Op 20-nov-2011, om 14:51 heeft upasaka@... het volgende geschreven:

              > So, uddhacca consists of some degree, from slight (like minor
              > disturbance or distraction) to great (such as extreme excitement),
              > of turmoil, like
              > the roiling of water, which interferes with or even entirely blocks
              > calm
              > and clarity, yes?
              -------
              N: There are many degrees of each akusala dhamma and thus also of
              uddhacca. I would not think of uddhacca in isolation of the other
              akusala cetasikas that can accompany akusala citta, all of them
              operate in a disturbing way. Unwise attention to the object that is
              experienced is the proximate cause of each kind of akusala.
              ------
              >
              > H: As an aside, I've noted that as regards meditating, while sloth &
              > torpor are more characteristic hindrances of mine, they are far
              > less disruptive
              > to the process than uddhacca. More generally, this being a greater
              > impediment (of uddhacca's as compared to thina-middha's) is the
              > case for me, I
              > find, on any occasion for which attention is important to be
              > maintained.
              > --------------------------------------------
              N: Also when there are sloth and torpor with the akusala citta there
              is uddhacca as well. Akusala citta never lacks uddhacca.
              -----
              Nina.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • upasaka@aol.com
              Hi, Nina - In a message dated 11/20/2011 9:11:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, vangorko@xs4all.nl writes: Hi Howard, ... N: There are many degrees of each
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 20, 2011
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                Hi, Nina -

                In a message dated 11/20/2011 9:11:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                vangorko@... writes:

                Hi Howard,
                Op 20-nov-2011, om 14:51 heeft upasaka@... het volgende geschreven:

                > So, uddhacca consists of some degree, from slight (like minor
                > disturbance or distraction) to great (such as extreme excitement),
                > of turmoil, like
                > the roiling of water, which interferes with or even entirely blocks
                > calm
                > and clarity, yes?
                -------
                N: There are many degrees of each akusala dhamma and thus also of
                uddhacca. I would not think of uddhacca in isolation of the other
                akusala cetasikas that can accompany akusala citta, all of them
                operate in a disturbing way. Unwise attention to the object that is
                experienced is the proximate cause of each kind of akusala.
                ------
                >
                > H: As an aside, I've noted that as regards meditating, while sloth &
                > torpor are more characteristic hindrances of mine, they are far
                > less disruptive
                > to the process than uddhacca. More generally, this being a greater
                > impediment (of uddhacca's as compared to thina-middha's) is the
                > case for me, I
                > find, on any occasion for which attention is important to be
                > maintained.
                > --------------------------------------------
                N: Also when there are sloth and torpor with the akusala citta there
                is uddhacca as well. Akusala citta never lacks uddhacca.
                ----------------------------------------------
                HCW:
                Thanks, Nina. I would presume that typically when thina-middha is
                strong, uddhacca is mild. Am I wrong? If yes, then I think I'm not really clear
                on the meaning of 'uddhacca'.
                ---------------------------------------------


                -----
                Nina.

                =============================
                With metta,
                Howard


                Seamless Interdependence

                /A change in anything is a change in everything/

                (Anonymous)



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lukas
                Dear Nina, I was wondering if uddhacca is more like agitation or more like worry? Best wishes Lukas
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 20, 2011
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                  Dear Nina,
                  I was wondering if uddhacca is more like agitation or more like worry?
                  Best wishes
                  Lukas


                  > some quotes from Vis. Ch XIV, 93 and Tiika:
                  >
                  > As to restlessness or agitation, this is a translation of uddhacca.
                • Nina van Gorkom
                  Dear Lukas, ... N: It depends what you mean by worry. Kukkucca is sometimes translated as worry or as regret. It arises due to the commission of akusala or the
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 21, 2011
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                    Dear Lukas,
                    Op 20-nov-2011, om 19:48 heeft Lukas het volgende geschreven:

                    > I was wondering if uddhacca is more like agitation or more like worry?
                    ------
                    N: It depends what you mean by worry. Kukkucca is sometimes
                    translated as worry or as regret. It arises due to the commission of
                    akusala or the omission of kusala. At the moment of kukkucca there is
                    also uddhacca, the cetasika that is not calm, agitated. They are
                    different cetasikas, and if we only use English translations there
                    will be confusion.
                    ------
                    Nina.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Nina van Gorkom
                    Hi Howard, ... N: This is hard to tell, since all akusala cetasikas that arise with akusala citta condition one another. Thina-middha arises only with akusala
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 21, 2011
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                      Hi Howard,
                      Op 20-nov-2011, om 17:41 heeft upasaka@... het volgende geschreven:

                      > N: Also when there are sloth and torpor with the akusala citta there
                      > is uddhacca as well. Akusala citta never lacks uddhacca.
                      > ----------------------------------------------
                      > HCW:
                      > Thanks, Nina. I would presume that typically when thina-middha is
                      > strong, uddhacca is mild. Am I wrong? If yes, then I think I'm not
                      > really clear
                      > on the meaning of 'uddhacca'.
                      > ---------------------------------------------
                      N: This is hard to tell, since all akusala cetasikas that arise with
                      akusala citta condition one another. Thina-middha arises only with
                      akusala cittas that are sasankhaarika, induced, and these are weaker
                      that those that are asankhaarika, spontaneous, without any inducement.
                      We cannot catch uddhacca, or point to it, but it is useful to know
                      that it accompanies each akusala citta. It is eradicated by the magga-
                      citta of the arahat, so this will be a long, long time.
                      ------
                      Nina.



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Lukas
                      Dear Nina ... L: So kukkucca is worry about deeds done in the past only and uddhacca then is not a worry? What about being worried not about deeds done? Best
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 21, 2011
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                        Dear Nina

                        > N: It depends what you mean by worry. Kukkucca is sometimes
                        > translated as worry or as regret. It arises due to the commission of
                        > akusala or the omission of kusala. At the moment of kukkucca there is
                        > also uddhacca, the cetasika that is not calm, agitated. They are
                        > different cetasikas, and if we only use English translations there
                        > will be confusion.
                        > ------

                        L: So kukkucca is worry about deeds done in the past only and uddhacca then is not a worry? What about being worried not about deeds done?

                        Best wishes
                        Lukas
                      • upasaka@aol.com
                        Hi, Nina - In a message dated 11/21/2011 3:45:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, vangorko@xs4all.nl writes: Hi Howard, ... N: This is hard to tell, since all
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 21, 2011
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                          Hi, Nina -

                          In a message dated 11/21/2011 3:45:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                          vangorko@... writes:

                          Hi Howard,
                          Op 20-nov-2011, om 17:41 heeft upasaka@... het volgende geschreven:

                          > N: Also when there are sloth and torpor with the akusala citta there
                          > is uddhacca as well. Akusala citta never lacks uddhacca.
                          > ----------------------------------------------
                          > HCW:
                          > Thanks, Nina. I would presume that typically when thina-middha is
                          > strong, uddhacca is mild. Am I wrong? If yes, then I think I'm not
                          > really clear
                          > on the meaning of 'uddhacca'.
                          > ---------------------------------------------
                          N: This is hard to tell, since all akusala cetasikas that arise with
                          akusala citta condition one another. Thina-middha arises only with
                          akusala cittas that are sasankhaarika, induced, and these are weaker
                          that those that are asankhaarika, spontaneous, without any inducement.
                          We cannot catch uddhacca, or point to it, but it is useful to know
                          that it accompanies each akusala citta.
                          ------------------------------------------
                          HCW:
                          I will keep that point in mind.
                          ------------------------------------------

                          It is eradicated by the magga-
                          citta of the arahat, so this will be a long, long time.
                          ------------------------------------------
                          HCW:
                          Ah, well!
                          -------------------------------------------


                          ------
                          Nina.
                          ===========================
                          With metta,
                          Howard


                          Seamless Interdependence

                          /A change in anything is a change in everything/

                          (Anonymous)




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Nina van Gorkom
                          Dear Lukas, ... N: I would not translate uddhacca by worry. Worried about deeds not done: the kusala that one omitted. There was an opportunity but it was
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 21, 2011
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                            Dear Lukas,
                            Op 21-nov-2011, om 12:32 heeft Lukas het volgende geschreven:

                            > L: So kukkucca is worry about deeds done in the past only and
                            > uddhacca then is not a worry? What about being worried not about
                            > deeds done?
                            ------
                            N: I would not translate uddhacca by worry.
                            Worried about deeds not done: the kusala that one omitted. There was
                            an opportunity but it was wasted, perhaps out of laziness or
                            selfishness. One could help a helpless person but one was only
                            thinking of one's own comfort. This causes regret later on.

                            -------
                            Nina.



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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