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Re: [dsg] What I heard on kamma [1]

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear Ann, ... N: You expressed that very well. Extra clarifications are always useful, I think. Nina. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 31, 2010
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      Dear Ann,
      Op 31-okt-2010, om 17:17 heeft glenjohnann het volgende geschreven:

      > I also wondered if Achan Sujin was simply pointing even when we say
      > colour, we may be attaching some significance to it as an entity -
      > not just elements. We talk about seeing, hearing, colour, sound all
      > the time - and perhaps we attach some subtle "something" to these
      > terms, rather than really understanding them as anatta. Without
      > more and direct understanding of them, that tendency is always there.
      ------
      N: You expressed that very well. Extra clarifications are always
      useful, I think.
      Nina.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • sarah abbott
      Dear Ann (& Nina), ... .... S: Yes, good comments. The suttas also often refer to the Four Great Elements - without these, no other rupas (inc colour/vis
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 1, 2010
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        Dear Ann (& Nina),

        --- On Mon, 1/11/10, glenjohnann <glenjohnann@...> wrote:
        >A: Nina, I too found myself rereading over and over the transcriptions about nimitta that you referred to in your question for Bangkok. I understood the Four Great Elements to be referring to the rupa which is object of the cittas - reminding us that all rupas consist of the Four Great Elements and the inseparables and nothing more or less.
        ....
        S: Yes, good comments. The suttas also often refer to the Four Great Elements - without these, no other rupas (inc colour/vis object), no ideas about shapes, forms, different colours or objects at all.
        ....
        >At first I wondered if there were greater significance to the use of the words "Four Great Elements" - however, I also wondered if Achan Sujin was simply pointing even when we say colour, we may be attaching some significance to it as an entity - not just elements. We talk about seeing, hearing, colour, sound all the time - and perhaps we attach some subtle "something" to these terms, rather than really understanding them as anatta. Without more and direct understanding of them, that tendency is always there. So, yes, some clarification on that would be helpful.
        ...
        S: I think your comments are all good and as you say, a good topic to raise further. Again, we so often get lost in names and labels, such as 'nimitta', 'colour' and so on, forgetting about the understanding of just what is seen or the seeing itself when it appears as anatta.

        Yes, atta-belief can creep in anytime at all, even when discussing visible object! Of course, as we all know, when there's awareness of what is seen, there's no idea of colours or shapes or nimittas.

        Pls keep chipping in with your helpful comments.
        Metta

        Sarah

        A: Sarah, (off topic here) I sent you an email offline on Sept. 29 - re travel plans etc for new year - wondering if you received it -
        ...
        S: So very sorry, yes recd and very behind with mail on and off-list! Planning to be in Bkk first week or so in Jan, but will confirm when we're there later this week and let you and others here know if anything is arranged. Hope to see you then!
        ===========
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