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Re: Who am I? A correction.

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  • epsteinrob
    Hi Ken H. ... Ha ha ha, that is rich. Have you ever read Nagarjuna? You are welcome to disagree with his philosophy, but to dismiss him as a weasel? One of
    Message 1 of 56 , Sep 24, 2010
      Hi Ken H.

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Ken H" <kenhowardau@...> wrote:

      > Weasel words notwithstanding, Nagarjuna's pseudo-philosophy held great appeal to many Buddhists. Those who were clinging desperately to a belief in self could have their cake and eat it too! They could pay lip service to the Buddha's doctrine of anatta, and still believe that somehow - in some logic-defying way - there really was a self.

      Ha ha ha, that is rich. Have you ever read Nagarjuna? You are welcome to disagree with his philosophy, but to dismiss him as a weasel? One of the greatest of all the Buddhist philosophers, certainly one of the most influential.

      In any case, I am not a follower of Nagarjuna, and you brought him up, not me. And your conclusion at the end that somehow one could believe that "there really was a self" is the *opposite* of everything that I said.

      If you wish to argue with yourself about a nonexistent conclusion that is not being drawn, feel free, but it has nothing to do with me. If you want to cling to paramatha dhammas as being more "actual" then self, when they are fleeting and empty and subject to the three marks, that is your choice, but it is the opposite of the attitude recently expressed by K. Sujin that the only purpose of investigating dhammas is to see that they are anatta, which was also my point.

      Be well,
      Robert E.

      = = = = = = = =
    • Ken O
      Dear Ari I suggest you do not use this exercise because there is no I in dhammas.  Conceivings of I is due to three dhammas, ditthi, mana and lobha.  Using
      Message 56 of 56 , Feb 12, 2011
        Dear Ari

        I suggest you do not use this exercise because there is no I in dhammas. 
        Conceivings of I is due to three dhammas, ditthi, mana and lobha.  Using this
        exercise would not help in mindfuless, it could be rather counter productive as
        it keeps the mind on I which in the first place does not exist.   Mindfulness is
        not about asking Who am I, mindfulness can arise with or without panna. 
        Mindfulness is awareing of dhamma that arise.  Mindfulness guards the mind but
        it is not for knowing dhamma.  Panna knows the nature of dhamma.  Without panna,
        mindfulness would lead to a blissful life but not salvation. 


        Many people are concerned over mindfulness due sutta that depicts
        mindffullness.  But many did not look deeper into sutta.  To practise
        mindffulness as in the sutta, one must have virtue and panna.  Without virtue,
        one is blameable, if one is blameable, one mind is not at peace, if it is not at
        peace, the mind is not being able to be calm or concentrate.  Why panna, because
        mindfullness of breathing is used as a basis of insight but is not insight
        itself.  Insight could be developed through panna, through listening, through
        investigating of dhamma, through good dhamma friends.


        Also I rather not use Who am I but Is there an I.  We can be mindful of sound
        citta or other sense citta but it is not very useful for salvation as it only
        being mindful.  It must be accompanied by investigating of the nature of citta. 
        there are a variety of way to understand the nature of citta through
        investigation for eg since sound citta arise is dependent on sound rupa, since
        it is dependent, it is condition, if it is condition, it is impermanent, if it
        is impermanet, it is painful due to change, if it is painful, do you consider it
        as me, I or myself.  Definitely not, so there is no I in sound citta. 


        cheers
        Ken O


        >Dear list,
        >
        >I am told that it's a great mindfulness exercise to repeatedly ask yourself "who
        >
        >am I"
        >
        >Has anyone had any experience with this?
        >
        >For myself, I have no idea who I am, and "who I am" is an interesting question.


        >
        >Best,
        >Ari
        >
        >
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