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[dsg] Re: Jhanas as taught by Ajahn Brahmavamso

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  • jonoabb
    Hi Swee Boon Nice to see you on the list again. (108132) ... J: I m not sure what assurance you see in the passage from M 66. As I read it, the Buddha is
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 4, 2010
      Hi Swee Boon

      Nice to see you on the list again.

      (108132)
      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "Neo" <nidive@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Nina,
      > ...
      > The pleasure of the jhanas is called RENUNCIATION-PLEASURE, SECLUSION-PLEASURE, CALM-PLEASURE and SELF-AWAKENING PLEASURE.
      > If this very assurance of the Buddha is not sufficient to instill confidence in you, then nothing will.
      > ===============

      J: I'm not sure what assurance you see in the passage from M 66. As I read it, the Buddha is asserting that the pleasurable feeling associated with kusala (all kinds, including of course jhana) is to be developed, not to be feared. This was contrary to certain other teachings of the time. But it is not controversial among dhamma-followers today (as far as I know).

      As Nina points out, it takes panna to know the difference between kusala consciousness and akusala consciousness. This is the essence of the development of samatha. Unless this difference is known from the outset, any assumed development of samatha/jhana will more likely be the development of akusala.

      I think this is fully consistent with the assertion contained in the passage.

      Jon

      > ------------------------------------------
      > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.066.than.html
      >
      > "Now, there is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of concentration, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. With the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This is called renunciation-pleasure, seclusion-pleasure, calm-pleasure, self-awakening-pleasure. And of this pleasure I say that it is to be cultivated, to be developed, to be pursued, that it is not to be feared.
      > ------------------------------------------
      >
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