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Re: What is the ALL actually?

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  • Ken H
    Hi pt, ... pt: Yes, I think I m wondering about the same thing. E.g. does knowledge mean that: 1. there s simply an occurrence of a specif concept
    Message 1 of 514 , Jul 1, 2010
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      Hi pt,

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      <. . .>
      pt: > Yes, I think I'm wondering about the same thing. E.g. does "knowledge" mean that:

      1. there's simply an occurrence of a specif concept - so in essence, just the fact that a certain concept arises in the process of thinking is already enough to qualify as "knowledge"

      2. there's some intellectual understanding of the content of thinking for example - e.g. I'm not just thinking about monkeys, but I'm also aware that I'm currently thinking about monkeys?

      3. Or is it more in the sense of direct insight - there's awareness of sanna as a cetasika, or perhaps vitaka and vicara, rather than paying attention to the content of the concepts that sanna provides (e.g. monkeys)?

      4. Or something else entirely?
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      I think your first guess might be the closest. The fact that a specific concept has become known (in the process of thinking) is enough to qualify that concept as a thing (a dhamma) in the broadest sense of the word.

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      <. . .> KH: > > I think the commentaries use that term quite frequently. They often distinguish between existence in the conventional sense (concepts) and existence in the ultimate sense (paramattha dhammas).

      pt: > Hm, ok, but what does "ultimate sense" actually mean? Does it refer strictly to an experience during insight?
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      No, it doesn't necessarily refer to an experience during insight. It refers to *the way things are*. Regardless of whether we have insight or not the fact remains; dhammas are all that really exists.

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      pt: > Or is it also a statement on par with "the world is round, oxygen and hydrogen make water" and that sort of thing?
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      Yes, if I understand you correctly: it is a statement of ultimate truth (as known and taught only by Buddhas).

      Ken H
    • sarah abbott
      Hi Rob E, ... R: I think that apart from all issues, yes, it is great to have those distinctions and I hope it represents progress in that way. I m certainly
      Message 514 of 514 , Aug 10, 2011
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        Hi Rob E,

        --- On Fri, 5/8/11, Robert E <epsteinrob@...> wrote:
        >>S: You appreciate the distinction between thinking and concepts and how the reality now, when we think about these issues, is just thinking which can be known as such. Dare I say that we're making good headway in the discussion?


        R:>I think that apart from all issues, yes, it is great to have those distinctions and I hope it represents progress in that way. I'm certainly happy to share and learn in that dimension, even while clinging to my terrible belief in "formal meditation." :-)
        .....
        S: :-))

        Metta

        Sarah
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