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[dsg] Re: Difference between Kamma and Kammavipaka. Influence. 1

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  • Ken H
    Hi Dieter and Howard, ... In Useful Posts there are 23 entries under Freewill? Determinism? Fatalism? and more under Willing , Effort , Cetana . I think
    Message 1 of 106 , Jun 1, 2010
      Hi Dieter and Howard,

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, upasaka@... wrote:

      > > Coming back to the issue of will/cetana /kamma , it seems to me
      > > an important matter much too seldom discussed ..
      > ------------------------------------------------
      > Folks on DSG don't discuss it much because they associate it,
      > I believe, with self-view.
      > ------------------------------------------------

      In Useful Posts there are 23 entries under "Freewill? Determinism? Fatalism?" and more under 'Willing', 'Effort', 'Cetana'". I think one of Howard's (103004) sums it up:

      "Not quite so easy, I think, Alex. There is, indeed, exertion. But it
      is conditioned, is it not? And, in fact, it entirely depends on conditions without any aspect of its arising being unconditioned, is that not so? And as for there being the *possibility* for developing pa~n~na etc, is that not also entirely determined by conditions and not random? What do we really mean by "free will"? I think it actually comes down to the fact that there are thought processes that consider and compare alternative actions, matching them against desired goals, and culminating in an act of volition. We *call* that process "deciding" and "exercising free will," but none of it is free in the sense of being random or unconditioned."

      Ken H
    • ptaus1
      Hi Sarah, Thanks for the extra info. ... pt: I thought as much :) Best wishes pt
      Message 106 of 106 , Aug 19, 2010
        Hi Sarah,

        Thanks for the extra info.

        > S: yes, and I think that if you check, by "the body becoming wieldy", it is the cetasikas referred to - cittas and cetasikas, not physical body. That wasn't the Buddha's concern.
        > In other words, kaya-kammannata is the the wieldy state of the (mental) body, while and citta-kammannata is the wieldy state of consciousness.

        > > pt: Though
        > > it's another matter how does one become energetic in the first place...
        > ...
        > S: Again, Right View is the Forerunner....:)

        pt: I thought as much :)

        Best wishes
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