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Bangkok impressions 28/12/01-2/01/02

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  • christine_forsyth
    Dear All, Much to my surprise, my luggage and I arrived safely at the Hotel around midnight. Wonderful to find a message waiting from Sarah and to receive an
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 2, 2002
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      Dear All,

      Much to my surprise, my luggage and I arrived safely at the Hotel
      around midnight. Wonderful to find a message waiting from Sarah and
      to receive an early morning phone call. (English accent!) Meeting
      Sarah, Jon and Mike for a leisurely breakfast and discussion each
      morning was a much 'looked forward to' way to start the day.....on
      one enjoyable occasion we were also joined by Sukin and Balvindra,
      Ivan, and Jaran.
      Having only known people as marks on a computer screen, the sounds of
      voices made the most impact at first. (Australian, American, English,
      Indian, Thai, Thai/English accents.)
      Meeting everyone at the Foundation, and listening to Khun Sujin was
      the highlight.....her gentle patience with people of all levels of
      understanding, and seemingly inexhaustible energy, unattached to
      results, left an indelible memory. Khun Sujin clarified my dilemma
      about metta being 'other directed' not 'self directed', for which I'm
      grateful.
      I didn't end up 'enlightened' which my son claims as the minimum
      outcome he expected of me......I still don't understand Anatta,
      didn't eradicate self-view, and I found out about defilements (and
      they weren't even on my 'to learn' list).
      But I did learn the A,B,C stepwise technique of observing
      realities ....... [:-) only joking Sarah, settle down :-)]...... I
      still wish there was one......
      A general warning to All:- Anyone contemplating a trip to Bangkok at
      the same time that Sarah and Jon are there - be careful of the
      breakfast gatherings......so friendly.....so relaxed..... such good
      conversation.....such a trap! :-)
      This only becomes apparent later in the day at the Foundation when
      either of this wonderful (but merciless) couple begins a sentence
      with "Khun Sujin, when I was talking with Christine earlier, she...
      (blah, blah, blah)....." Then you are under the search light of Khun
      Sujins' full attention, a microphone in your hands and not a thought
      in your empty head or a word in your mouth......All this after I
      found out that making deprecating remarks about your own lack of
      knowledge compared to everyone else is just mana. Why does it sound
      worse in Pali? And there must be a less harsh word than
      Defilements...........

      The REAL problem is that on the next morning you forget the
      consequences and the spell is woven again at breakfast.......
      NOTE:
      The defenses are 1. Keep your mouth full of food at breakfast and
      just nod and smile wisely.
      2. At the Foundation, sit in the outer
      circle of chairs, close your eyes like Ivan and give the impression
      of profoundly contemplating the reality of sound appearing in the
      present moment. That IS what he does isn't it???
      n.b. What is NOT considered acceptable when faced with unanswerable
      response from Khun Sujin is to look vague and after three or four
      seconds of silence say, 'Oh, and another thing I wanted to ask about
      was.......' or 'putting down the microphone'. Both of these
      manouevres will be greeted with laughter from the rest of the room,
      who will delight in pointing out that you are not getting off the
      hook so easily. I seem to have hook marks all over......But thanks
      to Amara, Betty, Sarah, Jon, Mike, Ivan, Ell, Sukin, Jaran, (and
      others whom I can clearly picture and fondly remember, but whom I
      don't wish to offend by a clumsy attempt at spelling their names) for
      helping me, and for the friendliness and good fellowship that seems
      to be a hallmark of a visit to the Foundation.

      note for Sukin - I have totally, absolutely forgiven you (almost) for
      bringing a digital camera and recording us for posterity on the same
      day my hair dryer died (r.i.p.) - henceforward to be known as Flat
      Hair Day.

      Other memories are of delightlful gifts from new friends, and books
      from the Foundation....feeding the fish (scores, as big as ironing
      boards!) near the Wat with Betty, Mike and Amara - Do you think fish
      are really that intelligent to know they are safe near a Wat? Are
      you sure it is not just that they know where half a ton of bread is
      going to be thrown in? (I am sure that's how much Amara had in the
      boot of the car).

      Lunch at the home of Khun Douangduan (?Sp) - delicious food in a
      lovely courtyard setting.....Sarah telling her dog-bite
      story........Betty telling her ?washing powder story (I will not type
      that word!).......lots of laughter.....

      Amaras' kindness and wonderful hospitality when she gave her time to
      take Mike and I around on New Years Day......Contrary to what you
      thought Jon, the traffic seemed to be horrendous, not light......I
      think 3 million of those 6 million didn't leave town for New Year,
      they seemed to be driving to the same places we were
      going!.......Thank goodness Amara is such an excellent driver (Rally
      Driver Extraordinaire).......though I think
      something...almost....happened because only once all day in awe-
      inspiring traffic did I hear her say 'Oooops!'. I tensed and tightly
      closed my eyes and practised a policy of 'don't ask and it didn't
      happen'.......and Mike didn't yell, but I think he sees Bangkok
      drivers as the norm now......

      I really could write on and on, but may I just say one
      thing........the period I spent in Bangkok with the dsg-ers is a life
      changing experience and exceeded my expectations. I hope to go again.

      metta,
      Christine
    • Sarah
      Hi Christine, I m laughing out loud so much (with my English laugh) that I m probably disturbing my neigbours;-) So very glad it was so worthwhile -- after all
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 2, 2002
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        Hi Christine,

        I'm laughing out loud so much (with my English laugh) that I'm probably
        disturbing my neigbours;-)

        So very glad it was so worthwhile -- after all it's a long trip for a long
        weekend;-) It was a very intensive weekend of discussion and I was most
        impressed by your patience, stamina and keen interest.

        I heard on the news that flights into Sydney were being diverted because
        of the smoke from the fires, so I'm relieved to hear that somehow you got
        back to Queensland OK.

        It was really great having you in Bkk at the same time and at the same
        hotel.....I'm afraid I can't attempt to match your wit and style here;-)
        Just be very glad the sight-seeing tour wasn't on the day after New Year's
        Day, though!

        Speak very soon. I see Num has already put you back in the hot seat;-))

        Looking forward to a repeat visit together and I'm already missing our
        breakfasts.....(lobha, lobha)

        Sarah
        =================================================



        --- christine_forsyth <cforsyth@...> wrote:


        > I really could write on and on, but may I just say one
        > thing........the period I spent in Bangkok with the dsg-ers is a life
        > changing experience and exceeded my expectations. I hope to go again.
        >
        > metta,
        > Christine
        >


        _______________________________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Get your free @... address at http://mail.english.yahoo.com.hk
      • Robert Epstein
        Dear Christine, What a lovely, humorous and evocative account of your trip and the meeting with dsg ers and others. If you decide to write a travel book, I m
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 3, 2002
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          Dear Christine,
          What a lovely, humorous and evocative account of your trip and the meeting with
          dsg'ers and others. If you decide to write a travel book, I'm ready to fill out
          the order form any time.

          Thanks for bringing the event to life.

          Now on to more important matters: Sukin, are you going to post the photos????
          <g>

          Best Regards,
          Robert Ep.

          =========================

          --- christine_forsyth <cforsyth@...> wrote:
          > Dear All,
          >
          > Much to my surprise, my luggage and I arrived safely at the Hotel
          > around midnight. Wonderful to find a message waiting from Sarah and
          > to receive an early morning phone call. (English accent!) Meeting
          > Sarah, Jon and Mike for a leisurely breakfast and discussion each
          > morning was a much 'looked forward to' way to start the day.....on
          > one enjoyable occasion we were also joined by Sukin and Balvindra,
          > Ivan, and Jaran.
          > Having only known people as marks on a computer screen, the sounds of
          > voices made the most impact at first. (Australian, American, English,
          > Indian, Thai, Thai/English accents.)
          > Meeting everyone at the Foundation, and listening to Khun Sujin was
          > the highlight.....her gentle patience with people of all levels of
          > understanding, and seemingly inexhaustible energy, unattached to
          > results, left an indelible memory. Khun Sujin clarified my dilemma
          > about metta being 'other directed' not 'self directed', for which I'm
          > grateful.
          > I didn't end up 'enlightened' which my son claims as the minimum
          > outcome he expected of me......I still don't understand Anatta,
          > didn't eradicate self-view, and I found out about defilements (and
          > they weren't even on my 'to learn' list).
          > But I did learn the A,B,C stepwise technique of observing
          > realities ....... [:-) only joking Sarah, settle down :-)]...... I
          > still wish there was one......
          > A general warning to All:- Anyone contemplating a trip to Bangkok at
          > the same time that Sarah and Jon are there - be careful of the
          > breakfast gatherings......so friendly.....so relaxed..... such good
          > conversation.....such a trap! :-)
          > This only becomes apparent later in the day at the Foundation when
          > either of this wonderful (but merciless) couple begins a sentence
          > with "Khun Sujin, when I was talking with Christine earlier, she...
          > (blah, blah, blah)....." Then you are under the search light of Khun
          > Sujins' full attention, a microphone in your hands and not a thought
          > in your empty head or a word in your mouth......All this after I
          > found out that making deprecating remarks about your own lack of
          > knowledge compared to everyone else is just mana. Why does it sound
          > worse in Pali? And there must be a less harsh word than
          > Defilements...........
          >
          > The REAL problem is that on the next morning you forget the
          > consequences and the spell is woven again at breakfast.......
          > NOTE:
          > The defenses are 1. Keep your mouth full of food at breakfast and
          > just nod and smile wisely.
          > 2. At the Foundation, sit in the outer
          > circle of chairs, close your eyes like Ivan and give the impression
          > of profoundly contemplating the reality of sound appearing in the
          > present moment. That IS what he does isn't it???
          > n.b. What is NOT considered acceptable when faced with unanswerable
          > response from Khun Sujin is to look vague and after three or four
          > seconds of silence say, 'Oh, and another thing I wanted to ask about
          > was.......' or 'putting down the microphone'. Both of these
          > manouevres will be greeted with laughter from the rest of the room,
          > who will delight in pointing out that you are not getting off the
          > hook so easily. I seem to have hook marks all over......But thanks
          > to Amara, Betty, Sarah, Jon, Mike, Ivan, Ell, Sukin, Jaran, (and
          > others whom I can clearly picture and fondly remember, but whom I
          > don't wish to offend by a clumsy attempt at spelling their names) for
          > helping me, and for the friendliness and good fellowship that seems
          > to be a hallmark of a visit to the Foundation.
          >
          > note for Sukin - I have totally, absolutely forgiven you (almost) for
          > bringing a digital camera and recording us for posterity on the same
          > day my hair dryer died (r.i.p.) - henceforward to be known as Flat
          > Hair Day.
          >
          > Other memories are of delightlful gifts from new friends, and books
          > from the Foundation....feeding the fish (scores, as big as ironing
          > boards!) near the Wat with Betty, Mike and Amara - Do you think fish
          > are really that intelligent to know they are safe near a Wat? Are
          > you sure it is not just that they know where half a ton of bread is
          > going to be thrown in? (I am sure that's how much Amara had in the
          > boot of the car).
          >
          > Lunch at the home of Khun Douangduan (?Sp) - delicious food in a
          > lovely courtyard setting.....Sarah telling her dog-bite
          > story........Betty telling her ?washing powder story (I will not type
          > that word!).......lots of laughter.....
          >
          > Amaras' kindness and wonderful hospitality when she gave her time to
          > take Mike and I around on New Years Day......Contrary to what you
          > thought Jon, the traffic seemed to be horrendous, not light......I
          > think 3 million of those 6 million didn't leave town for New Year,
          > they seemed to be driving to the same places we were
          > going!.......Thank goodness Amara is such an excellent driver (Rally
          > Driver Extraordinaire).......though I think
          > something...almost....happened because only once all day in awe-
          > inspiring traffic did I hear her say 'Oooops!'. I tensed and tightly
          > closed my eyes and practised a policy of 'don't ask and it didn't
          > happen'.......and Mike didn't yell, but I think he sees Bangkok
          > drivers as the norm now......
          >
          > I really could write on and on, but may I just say one
          > thing........the period I spent in Bangkok with the dsg-ers is a life
          > changing experience and exceeded my expectations. I hope to go again.
          >
          > metta,
          > Christine
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >


          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
          http://greetings.yahoo.com
        • christine_forsyth
          Dear Rob Ep, Thank you for your kind words......Maybe we ll all get there together sometime....We missed Robert K by a week or so......Trouble is with you and
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 3, 2002
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            Dear Rob Ep,

            Thank you for your kind words......Maybe we'll all get there together
            sometime....We missed Robert K by a week or so......Trouble is with
            you and Howard there, who else would get a word in? :-)

            Would I be persona non grata on the List if I slightly threatened
            Sujin....only a tiny little bit? Like getting Balvindra on our side
            somehow.......
            I feel the women in the photo should have the right to accept, or
            reject, or select, the photo (especially that poor one with flat
            hair). Or even wait 'til next year......

            metta,
            Christine

            --- In dhammastudygroup@y..., Robert Epstein <epsteinrob@Y...> wrote:
            > Dear Christine,
            > What a lovely, humorous and evocative account of your trip and the
            meeting with
            > dsg'ers and others. If you decide to write a travel book, I'm
            ready to fill out
            > the order form any time.
            >
            > Thanks for bringing the event to life.
            >
            > Now on to more important matters: Sukin, are you going to post the
            photos????
            > <g>
            >
            > Best Regards,
            > Robert Ep.
            >
            > =========================
            >
            > --- christine_forsyth <cforsyth@v...> wrote:
            > > Dear All,
            > >
            > > Much to my surprise, my luggage and I arrived safely at the Hotel
            > > around midnight. Wonderful to find a message waiting from Sarah
            and
            > > to receive an early morning phone call. (English accent!)
            Meeting
            > > Sarah, Jon and Mike for a leisurely breakfast and discussion each
            > > morning was a much 'looked forward to' way to start the
            day.....on
            > > one enjoyable occasion we were also joined by Sukin and
            Balvindra,
            > > Ivan, and Jaran.
            > > Having only known people as marks on a computer screen, the
            sounds of
            > > voices made the most impact at first. (Australian, American,
            English,
            > > Indian, Thai, Thai/English accents.)
            > > Meeting everyone at the Foundation, and listening to Khun Sujin
            was
            > > the highlight.....her gentle patience with people of all levels
            of
            > > understanding, and seemingly inexhaustible energy, unattached to
            > > results, left an indelible memory. Khun Sujin clarified my
            dilemma
            > > about metta being 'other directed' not 'self directed', for which
            I'm
            > > grateful.
            > > I didn't end up 'enlightened' which my son claims as the minimum
            > > outcome he expected of me......I still don't understand Anatta,
            > > didn't eradicate self-view, and I found out about defilements
            (and
            > > they weren't even on my 'to learn' list).
            > > But I did learn the A,B,C stepwise technique of observing
            > > realities ....... [:-) only joking Sarah, settle down :-
            )]...... I
            > > still wish there was one......
            > > A general warning to All:- Anyone contemplating a trip to Bangkok
            at
            > > the same time that Sarah and Jon are there - be careful of the
            > > breakfast gatherings......so friendly.....so relaxed..... such
            good
            > > conversation.....such a trap! :-)
            > > This only becomes apparent later in the day at the Foundation
            when
            > > either of this wonderful (but merciless) couple begins a
            sentence
            > > with "Khun Sujin, when I was talking with Christine earlier,
            she...
            > > (blah, blah, blah)....." Then you are under the search light of
            Khun
            > > Sujins' full attention, a microphone in your hands and not a
            thought
            > > in your empty head or a word in your mouth......All this after I
            > > found out that making deprecating remarks about your own lack of
            > > knowledge compared to everyone else is just mana. Why does it
            sound
            > > worse in Pali? And there must be a less harsh word than
            > > Defilements...........
            > >
            > > The REAL problem is that on the next morning you forget the
            > > consequences and the spell is woven again at breakfast.......
            > > NOTE:
            > > The defenses are 1. Keep your mouth full of food at breakfast
            and
            > > just nod and smile wisely.
            > > 2. At the Foundation, sit in the outer
            > > circle of chairs, close your eyes like Ivan and give the
            impression
            > > of profoundly contemplating the reality of sound appearing in the
            > > present moment. That IS what he does isn't it???
            > > n.b. What is NOT considered acceptable when faced with
            unanswerable
            > > response from Khun Sujin is to look vague and after three or four
            > > seconds of silence say, 'Oh, and another thing I wanted to ask
            about
            > > was.......' or 'putting down the microphone'. Both of
            these
            > > manouevres will be greeted with laughter from the rest of the
            room,
            > > who will delight in pointing out that you are not getting off the
            > > hook so easily. I seem to have hook marks all over......But
            thanks
            > > to Amara, Betty, Sarah, Jon, Mike, Ivan, Ell, Sukin, Jaran,
            (and
            > > others whom I can clearly picture and fondly remember, but whom I
            > > don't wish to offend by a clumsy attempt at spelling their names)
            for
            > > helping me, and for the friendliness and good fellowship that
            seems
            > > to be a hallmark of a visit to the Foundation.
            > >
            > > note for Sukin - I have totally, absolutely forgiven you (almost)
            for
            > > bringing a digital camera and recording us for posterity on the
            same
            > > day my hair dryer died (r.i.p.) - henceforward to be known as
            Flat
            > > Hair Day.
            > >
            > > Other memories are of delightlful gifts from new friends, and
            books
            > > from the Foundation....feeding the fish (scores, as big as
            ironing
            > > boards!) near the Wat with Betty, Mike and Amara - Do you think
            fish
            > > are really that intelligent to know they are safe near a Wat?
            Are
            > > you sure it is not just that they know where half a ton of bread
            is
            > > going to be thrown in? (I am sure that's how much Amara had in
            the
            > > boot of the car).
            > >
            > > Lunch at the home of Khun Douangduan (?Sp) - delicious food in a
            > > lovely courtyard setting.....Sarah telling her dog-bite
            > > story........Betty telling her ?washing powder story (I will not
            type
            > > that word!).......lots of laughter.....
            > >
            > > Amaras' kindness and wonderful hospitality when she gave her time
            to
            > > take Mike and I around on New Years Day......Contrary to what you
            > > thought Jon, the traffic seemed to be horrendous, not
            light......I
            > > think 3 million of those 6 million didn't leave town for New
            Year,
            > > they seemed to be driving to the same places we were
            > > going!.......Thank goodness Amara is such an excellent driver
            (Rally
            > > Driver Extraordinaire).......though I think
            > > something...almost....happened because only once all day in awe-
            > > inspiring traffic did I hear her say 'Oooops!'. I tensed and
            tightly
            > > closed my eyes and practised a policy of 'don't ask and it didn't
            > > happen'.......and Mike didn't yell, but I think he sees Bangkok
            > > drivers as the norm now......
            > >
            > > I really could write on and on, but may I just say one
            > > thing........the period I spent in Bangkok with the dsg-ers is a
            life
            > > changing experience and exceeded my expectations. I hope to go
            again.
            > >
            > > metta,
            > > Christine
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
            > http://greetings.yahoo.com
          • Sarah
            Dear Christine, ... ;-)) ... I think you may be getting Sujin and Sukin mixed up here...I m sure it s Sukin you d like to threaten;-) Yes, why not ask
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 3, 2002
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              Dear Christine,

              --- christine_forsyth <cforsyth@...> wrote: > Dear Rob Ep,
              >
              > Thank you for your kind words......Maybe we'll all get there together
              > sometime....We missed Robert K by a week or so......Trouble is with
              > you and Howard there, who else would get a word in? :-)

              ;-))

              > Would I be persona non grata on the List if I slightly threatened
              > Sujin....only a tiny little bit? Like getting Balvindra on our side
              > somehow.......

              I think you may be getting Sujin and Sukin mixed up here...I'm sure it's
              Sukin you'd like to threaten;-) Yes, why not ask Balvindra (Sukin's wife)
              to check whether your hair looks flat first? (..I'm so glad mine is too
              short to worry about..)

              > I feel the women in the photo should have the right to accept, or
              > reject, or select, the photo (especially that poor one with flat
              > hair). Or even wait 'til next year......

              Yes, I think so too....don't worry....In any case, Sukin was not sure his
              digital camera was up to doing whatever it's meant to do, so maybe your
              hair will be safe and it'll be an extra incentive for others to join us
              next year;-)

              Back to testing metta with my students tomorrow...still it's been a good
              break from the 'little darlings';-)

              Sarah
              ===========================================

              _______________________________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Get your free @... address at http://mail.english.yahoo.com.hk
            • christine_forsyth
              Dear Sarah, Thanks for the correction, my apologies to all. Hmmmmm! interesting about Sukins camera..... :-) metta, Christine ... together ... with ... side
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 3, 2002
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                Dear Sarah,

                Thanks for the correction, my apologies to all.

                Hmmmmm! interesting about Sukins' camera..... :-)

                metta,
                Christine


                --- In dhammastudygroup@y..., Sarah <sarahdhhk@y...> wrote:
                > Dear Christine,
                >
                > --- christine_forsyth <cforsyth@v...> wrote: > Dear Rob Ep,
                > >
                > > Thank you for your kind words......Maybe we'll all get there
                together
                > > sometime....We missed Robert K by a week or so......Trouble is
                with
                > > you and Howard there, who else would get a word in? :-)
                >
                > ;-))
                >
                > > Would I be persona non grata on the List if I slightly threatened
                > > Sujin....only a tiny little bit? Like getting Balvindra on our
                side
                > > somehow.......
                >
                > I think you may be getting Sujin and Sukin mixed up here...I'm sure
                it's
                > Sukin you'd like to threaten;-) Yes, why not ask Balvindra (Sukin's
                wife)
                > to check whether your hair looks flat first? (..I'm so glad mine is
                too
                > short to worry about..)
                >
                > > I feel the women in the photo should have the right to accept, or
                > > reject, or select, the photo (especially that poor one with flat
                > > hair). Or even wait 'til next year......
                >
                > Yes, I think so too....don't worry....In any case, Sukin was not
                sure his
                > digital camera was up to doing whatever it's meant to do, so maybe
                your
                > hair will be safe and it'll be an extra incentive for others to
                join us
                > next year;-)
                >
                > Back to testing metta with my students tomorrow...still it's been a
                good
                > break from the 'little darlings';-)
                >
                > Sarah
                > ===========================================
                >
                >
                ______________________________________________________________________
                _
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Get your free @... address at
                http://mail.english.yahoo.com.hk
              • Sukinderpal Narula
                Dear Robert, You asked: Now on to more important matters: Sukin, are you going to post the photos???? Now since Christine has forgiven me for choosing a
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 3, 2002
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                  Dear Robert,
                  You asked:

                  Now on to more important matters: Sukin, are you going to post the
                  photos????
                  <g>

                  Now since Christine has forgiven me for choosing a bad day for taking her
                  picture,
                  I think she doesn't mind me sending it to you. Actually I don't know what
                  she meant
                  by 'flat hair', I just looked at the picture and found that she was really
                  looking
                  very nice that morning.
                  You'll have to wait though since I took the picture in high resolution, I
                  need to
                  figure out a way to reduce their size before I can send them to you or
                  anyone else
                  who might be interested. There is also a group picture with Jon, Sarah, K.
                  Sujin,
                  Betty, Christine, Mike and myself.

                  Best wishes,
                  Sukin.

                  ps: Sorry if multiple copies of this post has been sent. I am new to
                  Microsoft Outlook
                  and am having difficulty handling it.
                • Robert Epstein
                  ... ha ha, I d be happy to take a vow of silence if it gains me admittance! ... Well, it was the flat hair that particularly intrigued me, but I understand
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 4, 2002
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                    --- christine_forsyth <cforsyth@...> wrote:
                    > Dear Rob Ep,
                    >
                    > Thank you for your kind words......Maybe we'll all get there together
                    > sometime....We missed Robert K by a week or so......Trouble is with
                    > you and Howard there, who else would get a word in? :-)

                    ha ha, I'd be happy to take a vow of silence if it gains me admittance!

                    > Would I be persona non grata on the List if I slightly threatened
                    > Sujin....only a tiny little bit? Like getting Balvindra on our side
                    > somehow.......
                    > I feel the women in the photo should have the right to accept, or
                    > reject, or select, the photo (especially that poor one with flat
                    > hair). Or even wait 'til next year......

                    Well, it was the flat hair that particularly intrigued me, but I understand your
                    feelings about it. My wife regularly de-selects photos that I think are perfectly
                    nice, and files them in the 'garbage file'. Sometimes we are forced to cut parts
                    of pictures out for my mother, meaning the part with her in it, leading to a
                    collection of odd-sized photos. Perhaps Sukin can selectively crop the photos and
                    only post ones that have permission. I guess that would be fair, as long as you
                    allow one of you to come through so that those unlucky enough to be absent we can
                    identify you as well as the others!

                    I would be happy to crop and post them myself if Sukin is too busy and want to
                    just email them to me. That's something that I can do pretty quickly.

                    In any case, I am sorry that I took your revelation of the photos to put you on
                    the spot. That is a little bit mean, and I have some regret about
                    that.........but I'm just curious to see everyone that I've been talking to [or
                    at!] here on dsg.

                    In exchange, maybe I'll find a bad photo of myself and put it in the dsg files.

                    Regards to you,
                    Robert Ep.

                    ===========


                    > metta,
                    > Christine
                    >
                    > --- In dhammastudygroup@y..., Robert Epstein <epsteinrob@Y...> wrote:
                    > > Dear Christine,
                    > > What a lovely, humorous and evocative account of your trip and the
                    > meeting with
                    > > dsg'ers and others. If you decide to write a travel book, I'm
                    > ready to fill out
                    > > the order form any time.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for bringing the event to life.
                    > >
                    > > Now on to more important matters: Sukin, are you going to post the
                    > photos????
                    > > <g>
                    > >
                    > > Best Regards,
                    > > Robert Ep.
                    > >
                    > > =========================
                    > >
                    > > --- christine_forsyth <cforsyth@v...> wrote:
                    > > > Dear All,
                    > > >
                    > > > Much to my surprise, my luggage and I arrived safely at the Hotel
                    > > > around midnight. Wonderful to find a message waiting from Sarah
                    > and
                    > > > to receive an early morning phone call. (English accent!)
                    > Meeting
                    > > > Sarah, Jon and Mike for a leisurely breakfast and discussion each
                    > > > morning was a much 'looked forward to' way to start the
                    > day.....on
                    > > > one enjoyable occasion we were also joined by Sukin and
                    > Balvindra,
                    > > > Ivan, and Jaran.
                    > > > Having only known people as marks on a computer screen, the
                    > sounds of
                    > > > voices made the most impact at first. (Australian, American,
                    > English,
                    > > > Indian, Thai, Thai/English accents.)
                    > > > Meeting everyone at the Foundation, and listening to Khun Sujin
                    > was
                    > > > the highlight.....her gentle patience with people of all levels
                    > of
                    > > > understanding, and seemingly inexhaustible energy, unattached to
                    > > > results, left an indelible memory. Khun Sujin clarified my
                    > dilemma
                    > > > about metta being 'other directed' not 'self directed', for which
                    > I'm
                    > > > grateful.
                    > > > I didn't end up 'enlightened' which my son claims as the minimum
                    > > > outcome he expected of me......I still don't understand Anatta,
                    > > > didn't eradicate self-view, and I found out about defilements
                    > (and
                    > > > they weren't even on my 'to learn' list).
                    > > > But I did learn the A,B,C stepwise technique of observing
                    > > > realities ....... [:-) only joking Sarah, settle down :-
                    > )]...... I
                    > > > still wish there was one......
                    > > > A general warning to All:- Anyone contemplating a trip to Bangkok
                    > at
                    > > > the same time that Sarah and Jon are there - be careful of the
                    > > > breakfast gatherings......so friendly.....so relaxed..... such
                    > good
                    > > > conversation.....such a trap! :-)
                    > > > This only becomes apparent later in the day at the Foundation
                    > when
                    > > > either of this wonderful (but merciless) couple begins a
                    > sentence
                    > > > with "Khun Sujin, when I was talking with Christine earlier,
                    > she...
                    > > > (blah, blah, blah)....." Then you are under the search light of
                    > Khun
                    > > > Sujins' full attention, a microphone in your hands and not a
                    > thought
                    > > > in your empty head or a word in your mouth......All this after I
                    > > > found out that making deprecating remarks about your own lack of
                    > > > knowledge compared to everyone else is just mana. Why does it
                    > sound
                    > > > worse in Pali? And there must be a less harsh word than
                    > > > Defilements...........
                    > > >
                    > > > The REAL problem is that on the next morning you forget the
                    > > > consequences and the spell is woven again at breakfast.......
                    > > > NOTE:
                    > > > The defenses are 1. Keep your mouth full of food at breakfast
                    > and
                    > > > just nod and smile wisely.
                    > > > 2. At the Foundation, sit in the outer
                    > > > circle of chairs, close your eyes like Ivan and give the
                    > impression
                    > > > of profoundly contemplating the reality of sound appearing in the
                    > > > present moment. That IS what he does isn't it???
                    > > > n.b. What is NOT considered acceptable when faced with
                    > unanswerable
                    > > > response from Khun Sujin is to look vague and after three or four
                    > > > seconds of silence say, 'Oh, and another thing I wanted to ask
                    > about
                    > > > was.......' or 'putting down the microphone'. Both of
                    > these
                    > > > manouevres will be greeted with laughter from the rest of the
                    > room,
                    > > > who will delight in pointing out that you are not getting off the
                    > > > hook so easily. I seem to have hook marks all over......But
                    > thanks
                    > > > to Amara, Betty, Sarah, Jon, Mike, Ivan, Ell, Sukin, Jaran,
                    > (and
                    > > > others whom I can clearly picture and fondly remember, but whom I
                    > > > don't wish to offend by a clumsy attempt at spelling their names)
                    > for
                    > > > helping me, and for the friendliness and good fellowship that
                    > seems
                    > > > to be a hallmark of a visit to the Foundation.
                    > > >
                    > > > note for Sukin - I have totally, absolutely forgiven you (almost)
                    > for
                    > > > bringing a digital camera and recording us for posterity on the
                    > same
                    > > > day my hair dryer died (r.i.p.) - henceforward to be known as
                    > Flat
                    > > > Hair Day.
                    > > >
                    > > > Other memories are of delightlful gifts from new friends, and
                    > books
                    > > > from the Foundation....feeding the fish (scores, as big as
                    > ironing
                    > > > boards!) near the Wat with Betty, Mike and Amara - Do you think
                    > fish
                    > > > are really that intelligent to know they are safe near a Wat?
                    > Are
                    > > > you sure it is not just that they know where half a ton of bread
                    > is
                    > > > going to be thrown in? (I am sure that's how much Amara had in
                    > the
                    > > > boot of the car).
                    > > >
                    > > > Lunch at the home of Khun Douangduan (?Sp) - delicious food in a
                    > > > lovely courtyard setting.....Sarah telling her dog-bite
                    > > > story........Betty telling her ?washing powder story (I will not
                    > type
                    > > > that word!).......lots of laughter.....
                    > > >
                    > > > Amaras' kindness and wonderful hospitality when she gave her time
                    > to
                    > > > take Mike and I around on New Years Day......Contrary to what you
                    > > > thought Jon, the traffic seemed to be horrendous, not
                    > light......I
                    > > > think 3 million of those 6 million didn't leave town for New
                    > Year,
                    > > > they seemed to be driving to the same places we were
                    > > > going!.......Thank goodness Amara is such an excellent driver
                    > (Rally
                    > > > Driver Extraordinaire).......though I think
                    > > > something...almost....happened because only once all day in awe-
                    > > > inspiring traffic did I hear her say 'Oooops!'. I tensed and
                    > tightly
                    > > > closed my eyes and practised a policy of 'don't ask and it didn't
                    > > > happen'.......and Mike didn't yell, but I think he sees Bangkok
                    > > > drivers as the norm now......
                    > > >
                    > > > I really could write on and on, but may I just say one
                    > > > thing........the period I spent in Bangkok with the dsg-ers is a
                    > life
                    > > > changing experience and exceeded my expectations. I hope to go
                    > again.
                    > > >
                    > > > metta,
                    > > > Christine
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > __________________________________________________
                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > > Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
                    > > http://greetings.yahoo.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >


                    __________________________________________________
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                  • Robert Epstein
                    Dear Sukin, That would be great if you have the chance to send the photos. I have a simple Application, Adobe Photodeluxe, which will reduce the resolution of
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 4, 2002
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                      Dear Sukin,
                      That would be great if you have the chance to send the photos. I have a simple
                      Application, Adobe Photodeluxe, which will reduce the resolution of the pictures,
                      once in the computer, to 72 dpi and will then convert them to jpeg files. It does
                      so in a matter of seconds.

                      If you want to send me the 'big picture files' and have me do the reduction, I
                      will be happy to do it. If they're too big to send, a good photo app, perhaps one
                      that comes with the camera's software?, should have a component to do what I have
                      described.

                      Best,
                      Robert Ep.

                      =============

                      --- Sukinderpal Narula <sukin@...> wrote:
                      > Dear Robert,
                      > You asked:
                      >
                      > Now on to more important matters: Sukin, are you going to post the
                      > photos????
                      > <g>
                      >
                      > Now since Christine has forgiven me for choosing a bad day for taking her
                      > picture,
                      > I think she doesn't mind me sending it to you. Actually I don't know what
                      > she meant
                      > by 'flat hair', I just looked at the picture and found that she was really
                      > looking
                      > very nice that morning.
                      > You'll have to wait though since I took the picture in high resolution, I
                      > need to
                      > figure out a way to reduce their size before I can send them to you or
                      > anyone else
                      > who might be interested. There is also a group picture with Jon, Sarah, K.
                      > Sujin,
                      > Betty, Christine, Mike and myself.
                      >
                      > Best wishes,
                      > Sukin.
                      >
                      > ps: Sorry if multiple copies of this post has been sent. I am new to
                      > Microsoft Outlook
                      > and am having difficulty handling it.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >


                      __________________________________________________
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                      Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
                      http://greetings.yahoo.com
                    • christine_forsyth
                      Dear Rob Ep, You say: My wife regularly de-selects photos that I think are perfectly nice, and files them in the garbage file . Sometimes we are forced to
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 4, 2002
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                        Dear Rob Ep,

                        You say: "My wife regularly de-selects photos that I think are
                        perfectly nice, and files them in the 'garbage file'. Sometimes we
                        are forced to cut parts of pictures out for my mother, meaning the
                        part with her in it, leading to a collection of odd-sized photos."

                        **I believe this is a genetic trait 100% inherited down the female
                        line.:-)

                        You say: "In any case, I am sorry that I took your revelation of the
                        photos to put you on the spot. That is a little bit mean, and I have
                        some regret about that.........but I'm just curious to see everyone
                        that I've been talking to [or at!] here on dsg."

                        **Rob - I have two brothers (of the blood, so to speak) so teasing
                        from dhamma brothers needs no apology, and certainly isn't seen by me
                        as mean. The only difference is - I can't throw a cushion at you via
                        the computer. :-) Though I really wouldn't like Sukin to put them in
                        the Files......just send via email to those who request them. Is
                        that possible, ... by email, I mean?

                        metta,
                        Christine
                        --- In dhammastudygroup@y..., Robert Epstein <epsteinrob@Y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- christine_forsyth <cforsyth@v...> wrote:
                        > > Dear Rob Ep,
                        > >
                        > > Thank you for your kind words......Maybe we'll all get there
                        together
                        > > sometime....We missed Robert K by a week or so......Trouble is
                        with
                        > > you and Howard there, who else would get a word in? :-)
                        >
                        > ha ha, I'd be happy to take a vow of silence if it gains me
                        admittance!
                        >
                        > > Would I be persona non grata on the List if I slightly threatened
                        > > Sujin....only a tiny little bit? Like getting Balvindra on our
                        side
                        > > somehow.......
                        > > I feel the women in the photo should have the right to accept, or
                        > > reject, or select, the photo (especially that poor one with flat
                        > > hair). Or even wait 'til next year......
                        >
                        > Well, it was the flat hair that particularly intrigued me, but I
                        understand your
                        > feelings about it. My wife regularly de-selects photos that I
                        think are perfectly
                        > nice, and files them in the 'garbage file'. Sometimes we are
                        forced to cut parts
                        > of pictures out for my mother, meaning the part with her in it,
                        leading to a
                        > collection of odd-sized photos. Perhaps Sukin can selectively crop
                        the photos and
                        > only post ones that have permission. I guess that would be fair,
                        as long as you
                        > allow one of you to come through so that those unlucky enough to be
                        absent we can
                        > identify you as well as the others!
                        >
                        > I would be happy to crop and post them myself if Sukin is too busy
                        and want to
                        > just email them to me. That's something that I can do pretty
                        quickly.
                        >
                        > In any case, I am sorry that I took your revelation of the photos
                        to put you on
                        > the spot. That is a little bit mean, and I have some regret about
                        > that.........but I'm just curious to see everyone that I've been
                        talking to [or
                        > at!] here on dsg.
                        >
                        > In exchange, maybe I'll find a bad photo of myself and put it in
                        the dsg files.
                        >
                        > Regards to you,
                        > Robert Ep.
                        >
                        > ===========
                      • Robert Epstein
                        ... Dear Christine, Yes, the photos should be able to be sent privately via email as attachments. That is fair enough not to have them in the files. Thanks
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 4, 2002
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- christine_forsyth <cforsyth@...> wrote:
                          > Dear Rob Ep,
                          >
                          > You say: "My wife regularly de-selects photos that I think are
                          > perfectly nice, and files them in the 'garbage file'. Sometimes we
                          > are forced to cut parts of pictures out for my mother, meaning the
                          > part with her in it, leading to a collection of odd-sized photos."
                          >
                          > **I believe this is a genetic trait 100% inherited down the female
                          > line.:-)
                          >
                          > You say: "In any case, I am sorry that I took your revelation of the
                          > photos to put you on the spot. That is a little bit mean, and I have
                          > some regret about that.........but I'm just curious to see everyone
                          > that I've been talking to [or at!] here on dsg."
                          >
                          > **Rob - I have two brothers (of the blood, so to speak) so teasing
                          > from dhamma brothers needs no apology, and certainly isn't seen by me
                          > as mean. The only difference is - I can't throw a cushion at you via
                          > the computer. :-) Though I really wouldn't like Sukin to put them in
                          > the Files......just send via email to those who request them. Is
                          > that possible, ... by email, I mean?
                          >
                          > metta,
                          > Christine

                          Dear Christine,
                          Yes, the photos should be able to be sent privately via email as attachments.
                          That is fair enough not to have them in the files. Thanks for being a good sport,
                          and....consider me cyber-cushioned. <g>

                          I have torn up a few photos myself that showed me [throug some lie of the camera]
                          to have a little more of a pot belly than I give myself credit for. I won't put
                          up with visual lies about myself, so I understand.

                          Robert Ep.

                          ===============================

                          > --- In dhammastudygroup@y..., Robert Epstein <epsteinrob@Y...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > --- christine_forsyth <cforsyth@v...> wrote:
                          > > > Dear Rob Ep,
                          > > >
                          > > > Thank you for your kind words......Maybe we'll all get there
                          > together
                          > > > sometime....We missed Robert K by a week or so......Trouble is
                          > with
                          > > > you and Howard there, who else would get a word in? :-)
                          > >
                          > > ha ha, I'd be happy to take a vow of silence if it gains me
                          > admittance!
                          > >
                          > > > Would I be persona non grata on the List if I slightly threatened
                          > > > Sujin....only a tiny little bit? Like getting Balvindra on our
                          > side
                          > > > somehow.......
                          > > > I feel the women in the photo should have the right to accept, or
                          > > > reject, or select, the photo (especially that poor one with flat
                          > > > hair). Or even wait 'til next year......
                          > >
                          > > Well, it was the flat hair that particularly intrigued me, but I
                          > understand your
                          > > feelings about it. My wife regularly de-selects photos that I
                          > think are perfectly
                          > > nice, and files them in the 'garbage file'. Sometimes we are
                          > forced to cut parts
                          > > of pictures out for my mother, meaning the part with her in it,
                          > leading to a
                          > > collection of odd-sized photos. Perhaps Sukin can selectively crop
                          > the photos and
                          > > only post ones that have permission. I guess that would be fair,
                          > as long as you
                          > > allow one of you to come through so that those unlucky enough to be
                          > absent we can
                          > > identify you as well as the others!
                          > >
                          > > I would be happy to crop and post them myself if Sukin is too busy
                          > and want to
                          > > just email them to me. That's something that I can do pretty
                          > quickly.
                          > >
                          > > In any case, I am sorry that I took your revelation of the photos
                          > to put you on
                          > > the spot. That is a little bit mean, and I have some regret about
                          > > that.........but I'm just curious to see everyone that I've been
                          > talking to [or
                          > > at!] here on dsg.
                          > >
                          > > In exchange, maybe I'll find a bad photo of myself and put it in
                          > the dsg files.
                          > >
                          > > Regards to you,
                          > > Robert Ep.
                          > >
                          > > ===========
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >


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                        • Jonothan Abbott
                          Christine Thanks for the amusing yet perceptive report of your visit. It was a delight to meet you. I m glad you did not find everythiing too overwhelming, as
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 5, 2002
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Christine

                            Thanks for the amusing yet perceptive report of your visit. It was a
                            delight to meet you.

                            I'm glad you did not find everythiing too overwhelming, as can happen with
                            new ideas and new people in new (exotic) places. You handled it all very
                            well, a testament I think to your confidence and understanding in the
                            teachings.

                            --- christine_forsyth <cforsyth@...> wrote: > Dear Rob Ep,
                            >
                            > Thank you for your kind words......Maybe we'll all get there together
                            > sometime....

                            Good thinking! Maybe we should pencil in Bangkok for next Christmas/New
                            Year (dsg jamboree?).

                            Jon



                            _______________________________________________________________________
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                          • sukinderpal
                            Dear Robert, The pictures are 400KB each and already in jpg format, I think that it would be better that I reduce the size myself before sending them to you.
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jan 5, 2002
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Dear Robert,
                              The pictures are 400KB each and already in jpg format, I think that
                              it would be better that I reduce the size myself before sending them
                              to you. My last attempt with an earlier version of Micrografx
                              Picture Publisher produced bad quality pictures. I will try to use
                              some other program, perhaps Photoshop, and see what happens.
                              Best wishes,
                              Sukin.

                              --- In dhammastudygroup@y..., Robert Epstein <epsteinrob@Y...> wrote:
                              > Dear Sukin,
                              > That would be great if you have the chance to send the photos. I
                              have a simple
                              > Application, Adobe Photodeluxe, which will reduce the resolution
                              of the pictures,
                              > once in the computer, to 72 dpi and will then convert them to jpeg
                              files. It does
                              > so in a matter of seconds.
                              >
                              > If you want to send me the 'big picture files' and have me do the
                              reduction, I
                              > will be happy to do it. If they're too big to send, a good photo
                              app, perhaps one
                              > that comes with the camera's software?, should have a component to
                              do what I have
                              > described.
                              >
                              > Best,
                              > Robert Ep.
                              >
                              > =============
                              >
                              > --- Sukinderpal Narula <sukin@k...> wrote:
                              > > Dear Robert,
                              > > You asked:
                              > >
                              > > Now on to more important matters: Sukin, are you going to post
                              the
                              > > photos????
                              > > <g>
                              > >
                              > > Now since Christine has forgiven me for choosing a bad day for
                              taking her
                              > > picture,
                              > > I think she doesn't mind me sending it to you. Actually I don't
                              know what
                              > > she meant
                              > > by 'flat hair', I just looked at the picture and found that she
                              was really
                              > > looking
                              > > very nice that morning.
                              > > You'll have to wait though since I took the picture in high
                              resolution, I
                              > > need to
                              > > figure out a way to reduce their size before I can send them to
                              you or
                              > > anyone else
                              > > who might be interested. There is also a group picture with Jon,
                              Sarah, K.
                              > > Sujin,
                              > > Betty, Christine, Mike and myself.
                              > >
                              > > Best wishes,
                              > > Sukin.
                              > >
                              > > ps: Sorry if multiple copies of this post has been sent. I am
                              new to
                              > > Microsoft Outlook
                              > > and am having difficulty handling it.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > __________________________________________________
                              > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
                              > http://greetings.yahoo.com
                            • Robert Epstein
                              That would be great, Sukin. I will wait to hear from you, and thanks! Best, Robert Ep. ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jan 5, 2002
                              • 0 Attachment
                                That would be great, Sukin.
                                I will wait to hear from you, and thanks!

                                Best,
                                Robert Ep.

                                =====

                                --- sukinderpal <sukin@...> wrote:
                                > Dear Robert,
                                > The pictures are 400KB each and already in jpg format, I think that
                                > it would be better that I reduce the size myself before sending them
                                > to you. My last attempt with an earlier version of Micrografx
                                > Picture Publisher produced bad quality pictures. I will try to use
                                > some other program, perhaps Photoshop, and see what happens.
                                > Best wishes,
                                > Sukin.
                                >
                                > --- In dhammastudygroup@y..., Robert Epstein <epsteinrob@Y...> wrote:
                                > > Dear Sukin,
                                > > That would be great if you have the chance to send the photos. I
                                > have a simple
                                > > Application, Adobe Photodeluxe, which will reduce the resolution
                                > of the pictures,
                                > > once in the computer, to 72 dpi and will then convert them to jpeg
                                > files. It does
                                > > so in a matter of seconds.
                                > >
                                > > If you want to send me the 'big picture files' and have me do the
                                > reduction, I
                                > > will be happy to do it. If they're too big to send, a good photo
                                > app, perhaps one
                                > > that comes with the camera's software?, should have a component to
                                > do what I have
                                > > described.
                                > >
                                > > Best,
                                > > Robert Ep.
                                > >
                                > > =============
                                > >
                                > > --- Sukinderpal Narula <sukin@k...> wrote:
                                > > > Dear Robert,
                                > > > You asked:
                                > > >
                                > > > Now on to more important matters: Sukin, are you going to post
                                > the
                                > > > photos????
                                > > > <g>
                                > > >
                                > > > Now since Christine has forgiven me for choosing a bad day for
                                > taking her
                                > > > picture,
                                > > > I think she doesn't mind me sending it to you. Actually I don't
                                > know what
                                > > > she meant
                                > > > by 'flat hair', I just looked at the picture and found that she
                                > was really
                                > > > looking
                                > > > very nice that morning.
                                > > > You'll have to wait though since I took the picture in high
                                > resolution, I
                                > > > need to
                                > > > figure out a way to reduce their size before I can send them to
                                > you or
                                > > > anyone else
                                > > > who might be interested. There is also a group picture with Jon,
                                > Sarah, K.
                                > > > Sujin,
                                > > > Betty, Christine, Mike and myself.
                                > > >
                                > > > Best wishes,
                                > > > Sukin.
                                > > >
                                > > > ps: Sorry if multiple copies of this post has been sent. I am
                                > new to
                                > > > Microsoft Outlook
                                > > > and am having difficulty handling it.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
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