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88465Re: Retreats (was, response to hate mail etc)

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  • jonoabb
    Jul 28 3:38 AM
      Hi Alex

      > Where did the Buddha say: "Read Abhidhamma pitaka and live the lay
      > life that you always wanted? No need to strive in the forest,
      caves,
      > empty houses and so on. Relax, doing is like for them, ignoramuses.
      > Here is TV remote, don't develop attabhava by engaging in like
      heavy
      > work"

      I haven't said any of that, so I'm not going to bite here ;-))

      > Why did He often praise going forth as a monk, and not just that.
      > Being a reclusive monk aloof from other monks?

      I think if one looks closely at the texts, it was not going forth and
      living the life of a reclusive monk *per se* that was praised by the
      Buddha, but doing so perfectly and purely. Thus, it was praised only
      for those (very few now, but more in those days) who are sufficiently
      accomplished to achieve that.

      > > But "many cases" do not make it a requirement laid down by the
      > Buddha or even a general rule.
      >
      > If you can achieve nanas and Jhanas at home, GOOD FOR YOU! I can't
      > argue with that.

      Again, not about me (or anyone in particular), but about the
      teachings as we have them today.

      It's a question of what the Buddha actually said (expressly or
      impliedly) in the suttas. It seems to me that you are attributing a
      particular aspect of doctrine to the Buddha on the basis of a number
      of suttas that describe a similar set of circumstances (but which do
      not contain any express or implied statement of the matter of
      doctrine).

      > Sariputta needed 9 meditation levels + Buddha's occasional personal
      > guidance to become an Arahant. That is considering the fact that he
      > became a sotopanna when he heard a line of Dhamma.
      > MN111, MN74
      >
      > MahaMoggallana needed 9 meditation levels + other things + almost
      > constant help from the Buddha himself.
      > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn40/sn40.009.wlsh.html

      Sariputta and MahaMoggallana would not be the great disciples they
      were unless their attainment of enlightenment was based on high
      levels of jhana.

      > If you can beat them while cooking at home, I can't argue with that.

      An intriguing thought, but nothing to do with anything I've said in
      our discussion so far ;-)).

      Jon
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