69227Re: Antw.: [dsg] Q. Rupas, Ch 1, no 2
- Mar 5, 2007--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, TGrand458@... wrote:
> Hi Robert
> In a message dated 3/5/2007 5:57:06 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
> rjkjp1@... writes:
> Dear TG,
> I'm no expert on science views but isn't energy a type of matter?
> TG: What does "matter" mean to you Robert? As I said, I don't
> is "matter" in the traditional sense. I think its all energy(movement) and
> just "appears to us" as matter.Dear TG,
I had always thought terms like energy and mass included all types
of matter but perhaps that idea is not accepted anymore? I merely use
matter as an English term for rupa.
Western science is so limited compared to Dhamma- so many models with
complex abstrations like quarks and photons, but they never get to
actual elements like tejo and vayo. And saying that I do think
physics is an incredible considering it developed without benefit of
Dhamma knowledge- it shows how clever lobha is.
> > And that there is no arisng and falling of matter or
> > mentality.
> > TG: No again. There is arising and falling of phenomena. (I do
> not claim
> > there is or is not matter however.)
> I thought you disagreed when the texts say that phenomena arise
> pass away?It is
> TG: Nope. Not at all. I think phenomena are constantly moving.
> this constant change which forces formations to rise, persistwhile changing,
> and fall. "Rise and fall" is just a short hand way of saying thisIMO. It is
> just language trying to express a rather simple observation. Totake it so
> literally as to generate a theory of immediate rising and thenimmediate
> passing away of "somethings" called rupas to me means the commonsense
> descriptions have been blown out of proportion.________
I see, but surely it must be that way. Even physics suggests that in
a tiny piece of matter - say a tip of a finger - there are billions
of incredibly tiny "atoms" which are in constant extremely rapid
flux. With huge spaces in between.
Why does it seem wrong that the Theravada suggests that
these "atoms" are actually not as they seem at all. That the reality
is much more in flux than science thinks: That it is simply elements,
kalapas - groups of rupas- arising and passing away.
BTW I was surpised by comment suggeting that the Theravada
explanation of rupas is too simple to account for variety. One
western science model of atoms posits electrons nuetrons and protons
and still manages to account for the elements in the periodic table.
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