47153Re: Beginner to Dhamma Eznir-Sukin #4 B
- Jul 1, 2005Dear Eznir,
Continuing from the last post:
> Old Sukinder: My point however was to show the danger of lobha andmoha
> in taking us the wrong way. In a day, almost never are we on theS>
> Middle Path, it is so illusive that we are all the time leaning
> either on the eternity side or the annihilation side. And it is
> avijja which puts us there and it is lobha supported by ditthi which
> can then lead us astray, away from the middle path.
> Eznir: Exactly! All the more reason why we should choose to cultivate
> mindfulness and awareness.
Only with the arising of panna can the right and wrong way be
distinguished. The problem is that we take to be sati what is not, and so
the path of practice then taken is one that is a reflection of such
Eznir: It is only then that with directed thought
> and sustained thought we nurture the conditions for panna to arise.be
> When ever the hindrances that you mentioned above arises one must
> aware that they have arisen. Only then does panna know that it is aS>
> mind with hindrances and how it arose. But why should we know how
> hindrances arise? So that panna will know the cause & conditions for
> its arising.
Thinking is only as good as the `understanding' behind it, this is why it is
stressed that panna leads the way. Lobha must appear to sati and
panna, only then can it be known. We can `think' about it, but this is
different from satipatthana, whereas if the thinking is seen with
wisdom, then that would be a moment of right practice.
Understanding dhamma on the conceptual level is pariyatti; the stress is
on "understanding" and not "thinking". And understanding correctly, one
does not then go about engaging in practices involving `self' and control.
It is when there is thinking about Dhamma without understanding, that
there arises an idea about `doing'.
> Sukinder: Not necessary to say, "keep in mind", but dhammas doarise
> all the time and depending on many, many conditions we will bereminded
> reminded about the moment or we will not.
> Eznir: It is nesessary. Dhammas do arise all the time and to be
> about the moment or not, does depend on the inclination of our mind.S>
> Our minds are never in a blank state, all the time it is involved in
> some thinking.
Reminders are necessary; association with wise friends is one such
condition for this to happen. And when the mind is inclined towards
dhamma as against other matters, then reminders come in from many
directions. However, this can happen with all levels of understandings
and misunderstandings. So it is one thing to see the value of being
reminded and have correct intellectual understanding, but another to
remind oneself constantly about what needs to be done.
The former can be with the understanding that dhammas are
conditioned and beyond control, whereas the latter may be with the
idea of self and control. Again I stress `understanding' as
against `thinking' about dhamma.
> Sukinder: If alobha and vijja arises, well and good, it knows.
> Eznir: But this "alobha and vijja" do not arise like a flash! They too
> subjected to the "many, many conditions" you mentioned above.These
> many many conditons are the inclination of the mind that conditonsS>
> alobha and vijja to arise!
Only panna conditions more panna and this cannot be willed. There can
however be the illusion that one is thinking about dhamma regularly and
that this is associated with right understanding. If this is the case, then
in fact one is going the wrong way. Wrong understanding conditions
> Sukinder: But their opposites don't and we could do well withto
> reminders about their being almost perpetually present.
> Eznir: See how you contradict yourself here; you say, "Not necessary
> say, "keep in mind"" that dhammas do arise all the time. But when itS>
> comes to lobha and avijja you say, "we could do well with reminders
> about their being almost perpetually present" - that is to *keep in
> mind*. They too are dhammas that arise all the time?
Again, saying, "keep in mind" is different from "understanding" the value
of being reminded.
To be continued .
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