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37230Re: cause of impermanence: To Htoo, Nina, Rob K

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  • htootintnaing
    Oct 3, 2004
      Herman:

      The original statement was Panatti does not arise, does not fall away
      So the tree does not arise, does not fall away?
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Htoo:

      There is no tree at all. So it does not arise and it does not fall
      away.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Herman:

      There are two trees. Tree as object, tree as subject.
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      Htoo: Hmm. I am listening to you.
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      Herman:

      There is the tree, as the name for the bunch of conditions which
      give rise to seeing it. In my view, nothing about the arising or
      falling away of the tree as object can be said if it is realised
      that the vision which sees it is rising and falling away all the
      time.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Htoo:

      If you see vision or sight, it is OK for you. Sight arises and falls
      away. But there is no tree at all and tree does not arise and does
      not fall away.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Herman:

      There is the tree as mental subject. In my view, it is clear that
      the tree as thought arises and falls away.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Htoo:

      As there is no tree at all, tree does not arise and does not fall
      away at all. Dhammayatana do not comprise panatti. There are three
      dhamma which serve as dhammaayatana. They are cetasikas, sukhama
      rupas and nibbana.

      Thought that arise and fall away are cittas and cetasikas. Cittas and
      cetasikas are nama dhamma and they are conditioned dhamma. They do
      arise and fall away.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Herman:

      So what do you mean when you say panatti does not arise, does not
      fall away?

      Sorry if I am too persistent :-)

      Kind Regards

      Herman
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Htoo:

      You are welcome. I have repeated explained above. There is no tree at
      all. As there is no tree, tree does not arise and tree does not fall
      away. Tree 'the word' is panatta and the idea in it is also panatta.
      There is no tree at all.

      Are these logical?

      'Nothing' arises and 'nothing' falls away. 'Nothing' exists. We can
      all see 'nothing'. We can all hear 'nothing'. We can all
      smell 'nothing'. We can all taste 'nothing'. We can all
      touch 'nothing'.

      As it is not real, there is nothing to do with 'nothing' here.

      You can now replace 'nothing' with 'panatta' or its example 'tree'.

      May you be free from suffering.

      With Unlimited Metta,

      Htoo Naing
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